Check Lists

[Vorticity]

My memory isnt anything amazing, but then again the drifter doesnt have that much to remember either! If flying a new aircraft I will definatly go over the checklists. If I have a passenger in the back I will give them a checklist. One reason is to get them involved but the other is to check me that I am doing my checks.

 

To me a checklist would just be another item in an open cockpit that is now becomeing clutter and needing to be managed. All to prompt a couple of very big ticket items that I would never miss anyway. I dont think it is scary but everyone is different.

 

 

[Mazda]

You won't see many people in things like Pitts Specials using a checklist, people don't have enough hands on start up anyway, and there's nowhere to put it.

 

Maybe the term "memory" is being confused with the beautifully described "flow pattern" in those articles, compared with the highly structured printed checklist. It doesn't mean people learn the printed checklist by memory, it means people learn what their aircraft requires, then look at every single instrument, switch and control to make sure everything is reading as it should and set correctly.

 

I agree with the article that people can be more caught up with the printed list than actually checking the real instruments. Learning to recite a checklist won't help this because people can easily recite the list without really thinking about it, and without actually doing the checks they recite.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I don't have a printed checklist and I've never used one, I just go from left to right and clockwise around the dash, touching each item as I go. That way I don't miss anything and it transfers easily from one aircraft to the next.

 

The Cirrus is interesting as it has the full checklists for everything including emergency ones on the Avidyne screen and you actually tick them off by pressing a button so you know you've done them all. It doesn't stop you taking off if you haven't finished it however.

 

 

[Guest Graham Lea]

A do it yourself kit for acronmyms

 

I got this (with the authors permission) from pprune. The original may have been a little too raunchy for here so I cut that bit out. With this you can make your own up.

 

Open door/canopy

 

Get in

 

Sit down

 

Adjust seat

 

Close door/canopy

 

Put belts on and adjust correctly

 

Check sufficient fuel for start

 

Check clear behind and ahead

 

Open door /canopy

 

Get out again

 

Remove wind screen cover

 

Get in again

 

Sit down

 

Put Ray-Bans on

 

Adjust seat

 

Close door/canopy

 

Put belts on and adjust correctly

 

Check clear behind and ahead

 

Check instruments for indications – master OFF

 

Master ON

 

Check instruments for indications

 

Mixture rich

 

Prime – as required

 

Throttle set

 

Mags ON –‘ Contact’

 

Activate starter - When engine starts reduce power to 1800 rpm idle

 

Avionics (radios) set correct Freq, check squelch, turn vol right up – tap radio face

 

Plug headset in – turn volume down

 

Adjust epaulettes

 

Copy ATIS/AWIS/AWIB (whatever that stands for, can’t remember acronyms)

 

Apply sufficient power to taxi over chocks

 

Taxi to runup bay – do pre-take off checks checks for 20 minutes

 

Check that all checks and radio transmissions/broadcasts made

 

Taxi to holding point as indicated in ATIS if at GAAP, or just back track straight down active if at busy CTAF

 

Line up – make more calls – do more checks – safety brief to self (Our Father…etc…)

 

Move throttle forward (fully)

 

Check power

 

Release brakes

 

Check speed

 

Close throttle

 

Stop on runway, get out remove pitot cover…………………

 

 

[facthunter]

acronyms.

 

First you have got to remember the acronym then hope you get the meanings right. Frequently the memory items are so remote from the proper original just to make a "tricky or clever acronym, it goes close to being ridiculous.

 

... FOR a basic aeroplane, (with retract, pitch control and mixture, single engine) I have a generic MEMORISED list which I adapt. This is my fall-back and was the first check-list i was ever taught based on air force practice. Call ALL items and just say not applicable for the few that are absent.. It works and is very safe, (So far) Nev..

 

 

[skybum]

Agree with you, FactHunter. Something I am trying for when I finally get flying again is a specific checklist for each individual type I fly including V speeds and normal ops on my PDA. Using EXCEL I have modified a few checklists I have found on the web to be more specific for the types I am rated on. As I go through the checklist I hit the down toggle on the PDA down to the next line. That way I am hoping I will have a easy setup to ensure I haven't missed anything important. My biggest error is I learnt before transponders were a common item and I am ALWAYS forgetting to turn it on or turn it on STBY at the appropriate time. Lights Camera Action is helping in that regard.

 

 

[Yenn]

skybum.

 

That is OK for those with a PDA, and the room and power to run it. Wouldn't work for me mainly as it is something else to go wrong. I will stick with a written list for complex planes and rely on TMPFICH for the simple ones. Even that one is over complex for the Corby. No trim, mixture, primer, CS prop, nor flaps.

 

 

[Tackleberry]

I know its out of date but I just had to reply to this. Checklists are mandatory in the RAAF for all tradesman and aircrew doing tasks. Just because they remember what to do doesnt alliviate their responsibility to use the good old dash33 or relevant AAP. Many a knucklehead (pilot) was seen consulting checklists on the flightline and taxiway after being on leave I can assure you.

 

I,m sure you would rather your ejection seat was maintained correctly, not put together from memory.

 

cheers

 

 

[Vorticity]

Yeah, my drifter isnt quite as complex as an ejector seat. I bet those same pilots dont have an AAP (publication) in their hand when doing their daily inspection.

 

Our aircraft are not complex with some having only 1 or 2 switches and a couple of instruments. Pretty simple stuff. They can also be open cockpit so any kind of un-required clutter should be avoided.

 

 

[Tackleberry]

Air Force pilots dont do Daily's. Thats a ground crew job. Pilots do a walk round and then jump in and fly. Makes you wonder why they have to have a degree! They carry a flight bag with checklists and pubs on all flights.. Bit of a different scenerio to us fun flyers. Still the same reasons for checklists apply.. Safety, safety, safety...

 

happy flying:thumb_up:

 

PS This was originally an answer to MAZDA who stated that single fighter pilots jumped in and took off without checklists. What wasnt said was that a pilot would have started and then shut down his engine or been on some sort of alert where he would have done all the checklists that day and then was waiting to launch. Hope this clears it up.

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

I voted for full memorised list with occassional reference to a written list.

 

I am in fact almost exclusively on the memory list but will use a written list or just about anything else when examining a new type until I have compared the applicability of memory to what is in the aircraft.

 

I am right with Facthunter on deliberately saying 'not fitted' etc so you keep your memory list truely generic.

 

 

[Thx1137]

I have always been a "Routine or memory checklist" kind of guy. Last week I found that I have missed a check during the run-up/pre-takoff checks so I will be using a laminated card I created some time ago for awhile at least. I don't know that I will always use it though, I think I will add a checklist review every time I do one of my basics review flights.

 

On lining up I always spend 3 or 4 seconds rechecking trim, flaps, fuel, doors and pax. Thats how I knew I missed something...

 

Paying attention to what your checking I think it pretty key. It is easy to have a quick scan and not really "see". Going through the motions I guess. So I always verbally read off the number or object state to help make sure I am seeing what I am seeing :-)

 

 

[Tomo]

Used to pretty much just rely on memory - but now that I've got a dozen or so aircraft under my belt, and available to fly - it's just not wise to rely on memory for each aircraft. I feel for myself anyway.

 

 

[facthunter]

simple to complex

 

Once you are flying a fairly complex aircraft you do the stipulated checklist in the POH as a minimum. There are no if's or buts. You are operating from an approved document.The flick up and operate slide across is good. Checklist is a CHECK as the name implies When you have COMPLETED the action and CONFIRMED it, you move the slide. There is no need to second guess or reconfirm in these circumstances. IF you are reading from a printed list and you get distracted, START AGAIN. There is some argument as to whether the checklist is a confirmation or an instigator of an action.. It is quicker if the action(s) are done first and the list is a confirmation and this is the predominant Philosophy. It also presumes that you actually know what to do.

 

Nev.

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

Some aircraft I hire have pretty basic pre-takeoff checklists, but because I have hired only Jabs so far, I'm well used to working from left to right across the panel from memory, cross-check compass with the glass panel, then hatches closed and locked, harnesses secure. I have three things ingrained as I taxi from doing run-ups to the runway: trim neutral, fuel pump on, flaps set for take-off. It's been useful a couple of times I've lined up.

 

 

[AerospaceTechnology]

Check Lists

 

It’s imperative to always use a check-list. I use a laminated modified check-list every time and this can facilitate safety especially if flying varying aircraft types. The check-list itself includes retracting under-carriage and ‘pretending’ this check when on a fixed U/C plane, is worth doing, so that sound Check-List habits are maintained.

 

 

[Aussie Steve]

We,re pilots...we,re supposed to love check lists !

 

I myself dont have a problem with them, I prefer to use them and know that I haven,t missed something.

 

To think that you dont need one, is to become complacent and over confident.

 

A dangerous attitude indeed.

 

 

[farri]

I`ve had my current AC for 25 years and on average,I fly a couple of times a week,I know it upside down and back to front,I know how it`s supposed to be and I know if something is not right,I don`t use a writen check list.

 

If followed correctly, a writen check list assures that everything that needs to be checked will be checked, knowing if what you`ve checked is ok or not,is a different matter altogether and the important bit.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[Tomo]

Aircraft dependent

 

Aircraft such as the drifter, and other simple machines - the checklist would just be a pain, and not really necessary, if you can't remember things like that, it'd be bit of a worry!

 

The more complex, the easier to forget/miss things - hence the checklist.

 

 

[farri]

:gerg:Absolutely Tomo,Why I love my Drifter. :Rogue:

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Your correct there Cficare !...Most Drifters have a super simple cockpit and you certainly don't need checklist for them. I have never done the acronym thing, and can't recall ever being taught to, in any flight training I've done. I find acronyms confusing. I agree with Barefoot a few posts back...it all depends on the complexity of the machine and cockpit. In my own aircraft (Lightwing) which has a relativly simple cockpit to check, I do it mostly by memory and touch. I do have a checklist handy, and often will refer to it if I'm flying a passenger as a back-up check. I occasionally fly a lot of different aircraft, and you just can't rely on them having an accurate, or up to date checklist all of the time.

 

It is my habit to check things over two or three times prior to takeoff, with heavy emphases on Fuel and aircraft trim, as they are often the things that kill on takeoff. I also do the old cropduster style check of engine RPMs as I am rolling.

 

I once asked a professional why he always referred to the checklist for all items and his simple reply was : " It takes the human factor out of the loop " .....Maj...

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...I once asked a professional why he always referred to the checklist for all items and his simple reply was : " It takes the human factor out of the loop " .....Maj...

I don't actually agree. You cannot take the human factor out of the loop while it is a human doing the checks. You just have to mentally stand back and observe what you are doing Ask yourself have I missed something; Check a couple of things that you haven't checked for a while and would not have been on the list (if you used one); Do the checks in a different order to try and take the automation out of the process.

 

If using a check list, try not to fall into the trap of having completing the check list as the objective, rather than looking for something abnormal. A subtle distinction, but an important one. This is where the HF creeps in!

 

In my pre-flight last night I found a fracture in the bracket holding the oil reservoir. That wasn't on any check list, but in physically checking the free movement of the oil reservoir, it had a little play... not loose, but just a little more movement than I thought it should. I then thought one of the bolts needed another half turn to tighten, but on closer inspection discovered the fracture. Not visible unless you actually flexed the bracket. So no flying for me last night

 

 

[farri]

If using a check list, try not to fall into the trap of having completed the check list as the objective, rather than looking for something abnormal.

:thumb_up: .

 

Frank.

 

 

[sfGnome]

Being relatively new to flying and having only flown two very similar types, I currently only use memorised checklists. However, I'm thinking of changing that for two reasons;

 

* just occasionally, I find that I've missed something - nothing yet that's bitten me, but one of these days...

 

* my beloved is a somewhat nervous flyer - she comes with me as a favour, not because she likes it - and I was thinking that getting her to 'call' the lists might both give her something to do and also distract her from noticing that there's not a lot under her feet! :) What do you think? Reckon it'd work?

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

What do you think? Reckon it'd work?

I don't think there is just one way to perform checks. After you have learned what to do and how to do it, each person needs to determine what works best for them. Some approaches will be better than others and what works best for one person may not be optimum for another. I think that everyone misses something now and then... that's the Human Factor. Developing an approach that minimises the chance of missing something important is the objective.

 

We start by learning a process that has been designed by others with more experience, so there is also a risk that if you change the process significantly, you may develop a process that others have learned has drawbacks. You obviously understand that and are thus posting here for feedback.

 

The fact that you recognise that you have occasionally missed something and are thinking of ways to improve is very positive.

 

Remember though, that you are ultimately responsible as PIC for the success or otherwise of the checking process. If your other half becomes distracted and misses an item on the list, will you realise it and check it anyway, or could it result in an incomplete check. I cannot help but think that if someone else is reading you a list, then your attention is divided between listening for the next item, responding to the last item and performing the check.

 

As an alternate suggestion, provide your other half with a list, go through it and explain the checks, engage her as an observer and encourage her to ask questions, particularly about anything she feels is abnormal, although not distracting you during the checks is also important. You could call out the items as you check them (from memory) and have her check them off on the list. At the end she could indicate if you have missed anything. Sometimes another pair of eyes and a different perspective can pick up something you would otherwise miss.

 

* I'm also relatively new to flying ( 1yr / 95 hrs), so don't take my thoughts as being authoritative. Once you have decided on a plan, discuss it with your instructor.