Terrier 200 or Jabiru ST3

[digistore]

Hi, Trying to decide between a Terrier 200 100hp or a Jabiru ST3 80hp. This will be our first microlight. I have ratings on the Tecnam Sierra and the Fly Synthesis Storch. Want a/c for 'a to b' travel so avalable weight to 544kg is important. Do my local stuff in gliders. I am in New Zealand.

 

Second hand availability in NZ is strong driving point. Both a/c about same price $69 and $58k. Can't afford $130k for new a/c.

 

Want sturdy a/c with reliability. Any comments about the Terrier Subaru Redundant Modular Ignition System?

 

A bit concerned about weight of Terrier and relatively low payload.

 

Any thoughts on which way to go?

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

Perhaps something with a Rotax ? your experience listed is with these engines

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I'd go a Jab over Terrier. Subaru make car engines, not Aircraft ones!

 

I own a Subaru myself, but that's where the engine belongs!

 

 

[Yenn]

A lot of Subaru engines are used in aircraft and I believe they were making aircraft engines before they made cars, during and prior to WW2.

 

Having said that I would prefer to stick with the Jab, it goes very well in my plane.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Fuji Heavy Industries to be exact. Makers of the Subaru, including my new Subaru Liberty that has FHI stamped on the door frame.

 

 

[trevorp]

A lot of Subaru engines are used in aircraft and I believe they were making aircraft engines before they made cars, during and prior to WW2.

So that is true, as i was only recently informed, Subaru engines originly desiged for aircraft.

Go Subaru...

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Actually - it's now go TOYOTA, considering they just bought a major share of Subaru!

 

 

[planedriver]

I'm surprised I don't see more about the Terriers on these forums.

 

My own personal opinion is that they're a great looking aircraft and for me it was love at first sight.The latest 200c looks even better, and would have expected it to have great appeal to anyone wanting to minimise the costs involved in weekend flyaways.

 

The jabiru seems possibly a bit more sturdy than the early Terrier 100 I was able to inspect, but that was quite a few years ago, and no doubt they've improved a lot since then with it's fibreglass-skinned wet wings etc.

 

I sometimes wonder whether it's because Foxcon have smaller production facilities to enable them to get more out there, or, are the majority biased towards the jab. because it's a better product?

 

Both seem to have their occasional problems.

 

 

[Guest Nelson Smith]

The only Terrier 200 I have been involved with was a disgusting example of aviation engineering.And it was brand new.Don't touch one

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

in what way were they disgusting ?

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

There are good and bad examples of many planes out there, it depends on how they are looked after. We have a terrier at our airport and its forever being worked on (mainly the engine) he reckons there is 3 hours maintenance for every hour flown ! but he still enjoys flying it and i guess thats what it is all about !

 

 

[planedriver]

The motor is pretty basic and has been around for ever and a day. I find it hard to think that it could'nt be properly sorted if you know what you are doing, and work through it thoroughly in a methodical order. Maybe the guy is better at other things, than he is a motor mechanic.

 

 

[planedriver]

If any of our Kiwi friends have anything to add? it would be good to hear from you.

 

I know quite a few kit's went over to NZ a while back and presumeably they did their homework before buying them. I'd be interested to know whether they've lived up to their expectations.

 

Come on you guy's both in NZ and Oz, how about a bit of feedback.

 

 

[Guest Nelson Smith]

Adrian sorry I didn't get back to you sooner but I've been away.The reason the Terrier I was involved with, was on delivery by builder (new) the aircraft required a lot of input to fly straight and level.The majority of hardware bolts were no where near safety,parts of the aileron mech. were rubbing together,and the flap lever was a long way from locking in. lots more problems too.

 

Nelson

 

 

[planedriver]

Hi Nelson,

 

Do you know whether it was built at the facory, or somewhere else?

 

I'm sure Helmut or one of the staff would have checked it out if it was built at the factory under their guidence. I would certainly like to think so anyway.

 

Just goes to prove the worth of taking a LAME or someone experienced in the field when checking out any aircraft before purchasing one.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

The aircraft referred to was completed at the factory by the manufacturer.

 

I also saw the evidence referred to and was most disappointed for the owner considering what the aircraft cost to purchase.

 

 

[planedriver]

Thanks for that Brent,

 

Would have thought that Foxcon may have had some input to support their own interests. Now i'm really disallusioned:black_eye:

 

It obviously pays to seek advise from those who know a lot more than me.

 

Presumably they don't even have time to be in touch with their potentially biggest market place in Oz. Certainly makes one think of the alternative options.

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

Presumably they don't even have time to be in touch with their potentially biggest market place in Oz. Certainly makes one think of the alternative options.

Not everyone has the time or is welcome on the forums.

 

There are a number of importers/manufacturers banned from the forums and i guess thats why the RAA wants to run their own forums rather than having no control over membership approvals etc.

 

I heard the RAA forum is close to being started (hanger gossip at a recent CASA day)

 

Cheers Brad

 

 

[planedriver]

We learn something new every day Brad.

 

If I was running their business, I would at least want to keep my ear to the ground directly, or indirectly, as a bit of bad press can rob them of plenty of dollars which as a business they should be trying to earn.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

There are a number of importers/manufacturers banned from the forums and i guess thats why the RAA wants to run their own forums rather than having no control over membership approvals etc.

I have to wonder what your agenda is in saying that. I guess 1 is a number, but fairly misleading. Michael Coates willfully and consistently broke the main rule - no commercial advertising. This site is run using Ian Baker's own money, but Michael frequently used it to push his own business. That's just not right.

 

Other manufacturers have a presence here without doing that, and the aim is to provide information to pilots - not to get free advertising at someone else's expense.

 

Even more manufacturers have no presence here because they don't know about it, or don't participate for their own reasons. All would be welcome.

 

The site's raison d'être is safer, more enjoyable flying through information and friendship.

 

If you need information from a supplier/manufacturer, contact them. You can't expect them to all come here.

 

There is no conspiracy, or list of people to keep out. Read the rules, sign up, follow them.

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

Slutibarfast, i have no aggenda, just passing on feedback and comments from the local drome.

 

Well, at our recent hanger meeting after a CASA do there were 2 importers i was talking to over a steak sandwich and one of them was Michael Coates (and i must disclose that i purchased an aircraft off him) and both were banned from these forums.

 

In Michael's case it was for telling someone that he had some new headsets on the market and the administrator banned him ? The other guy i cant remember ?

 

I spend a bit of time on the Vans site and they carry advertising and are well supported by the various vendors (which is great when someone has a problem).

 

To be honest i see an unbalanced undertone about "We do all this for free - everywhere" and if you do the wrong thing you are banned, i guess thats why the RAA are doing their own thing in starting their own forums IMHO.

 

Not everyone will agree with this but thats what a forum is all about and why the RAA are not going to utilise this valuable resource and repository of information that is already here, cheers Brad

 

PS Note: i am not endorsing or canning anyone this is just my opinion based on what i have seen and heard at the drome and here

 

 

[BigPete]

The last time RA-AUS ran a forum, it degenerated into a slanging match and fell into disrepute. I was a member for a very short time - taken over by a few people who were probably armchair pilots. :yuk:

 

The reason why this forum survives is because of strict moderation. :thumb_up:

 

Aircraft1 - I'm sure you meant no disrespect to Slarti - but mate you need to check your spelling - your first word in your last post is by itself, inflammatory. :black_eye:

 

regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[Admin]

Aircraft1 - there is a lot more then Michael Coates himself would tell you - did he also tell you that he had 3 warnings for breaking the rules before he was banned - probably not and note that he is the only person that has been "permanently" banned from here, others have had suspensions for periods of time for breaking the rules, the rules that you and everyone else agreed to when joining these forums to gain a world of helpful information, but there is absolutely no discrimination to any dealer or general person - the rules are the same for everyone so why do some people think that rules are only for other people and not them?

 

The RAAus forums that may be happening has been initiated as a simple means of RAAus specific information distribution and I have had discussions, private discussions which I won't elaborate on for ethical reasons with the executive, about our forums, and I can safely say that you have been either completely misinformed and probably no doubt from an aircraft salesman or you have some kind of ulterior motive. There is a lot of private information about this entire subject so please listen to someone that has integrity rather then hangar gossip. It is also worthy to note that any subject that may come up in any RAAus forum that is started will also be started here so no one will miss anything!

 

You know that I am standing in the current board elections and this is the 2nd time in as many weeks that you have targeted me so I do wonder if there is an ulterior motive and are sinister ploys being initiated. What I will say is that there are people out there that just take money from you and our industry yet for the last 4 years I have done nothing but give you my time and my money in the form of providing you with a great resource, a resource that is heavily moderated to maintain it's friendliness, helpfulness and above all provide you with a possibility of learning something to keep you alive - has anyone else ever done anything like this for you and for absolutely nothing in return???

 

Darn politics and the games that people play trying to reap any benefit they can for themselves - but me, well just look at the benefit that you have had in the last 4 years in these forums - I think it is obvious that I just simply stand for you and in helping all RAAus members and take nothing in return!

 

With respect!

 

 

[Guest aircraft1]

Sorry for the spelling mistake on the name, if it was something that was 'easy' to spell i wouldnt have made the mistake. SORRY slartibartfast[/sIZ"]Recreational Flying (there i copied and pasted to avoid spelling problems). What does it mean anyway ?

 

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Ian, to be fare i was told about a lot more history when speaking to Coates and i didnt repeat it here because i didnt think it was constructive nor do i care that you have banned him and had a disagreement.

 

I personally have no objection with regard to anything you are doing standing for the RAA board, there is no hidden motive in any of the information I have posted; it is a case of dont shoot the messenger, I am only repeating what was told to me at the CASA meeting. You are not even in my board area so anything I can say or do has no effect whatsoever on the outcome. People seemed to be excited that the RAA are going to start up their own forums again and it was the two people I spoke to who were banned from the forums that got me thinking it would be better to have an alternative forums which were not so heavily moderated and people got banned from

 

I do however wish you well because I know from speaking with past and present board members that the effort and input is considerable and affects their way of life, family and business's.

 

You know that I am standing in the current board elections and this is the 2nd time in as many weeks that you have targeted me so I do wonder if there is an ulterior motive and are sinister ploys being initiated.

 

This statement from your post above is absolute rubbish ! The first "attack" as you put it was simply mentioning in your running for board member statement that you didn't mention the millennium project.

 

I would have thought it was best to mention that part of your business plan in your statement so that nobody could come back at a later time and accuse you of only getting the permission to have the aircraft imported into Australia based on the fact that you were a board member.

 

No other alternate motive was expressed or implied in the post, it was simply my observation that I thought it would be best to mention this because some of the people reading your statement which are not on the e-mail list know nothing about you (and neither do i) and somebody that has a go at importing aircraft earns my respect and possibly also the respect of others so i thought it was something WORTH mentioning in a POSITIVE way.

 

Enough said, I will go and hide under my rock again and enjoy life as a lurker rather than a poster ! Cheers Brad

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Bigpete, I'll admit to being one of the most frequent posters on the old forum but I can assure you that I wasn't an armchair pilot