Global Climate - are you Cool, Hot, or dont give a Hoot ?

[Ultralights]

top gear did a great special, they drove to the north pole, when its apparently impossible now with global warming

 

Didn't Antarctica record its biggest winter ice sheet growth since records began?

 

 

[Guest J430]

Ultra

 

Dont spoil a good myth by telling the truth :hittinghead:

 

J:wave:

 

 

[Guest extralite]

as mentioned above, the antartic ice sheet is getting thicker because it has become warmer..warm enough to snow. howeverthe edges are breaking off. the artic ice sheet, never as cold, is disappearing fast.

 

its interesting also to note that smoking does not cause lung cancer, make another good thread :) .....

 

The real cause of lung cancer, according to another Oxford research scientist, Dr. Kitty Little, is diesel fumes. And the evidence here is much more persuasive. It includes the facts that:

 

• tobacco smoke contains no carcinogens, while diesel fumes contain four known carcinogens;
   
   
  
• that lung cancer is rare in rural areas, but common in towns;
   
   
  
• that cancers are more prevalent along the routes of motorways;
   
   
  
• that the incidence of lung cancer has doubled in non-smokers over past decades;
   
   
  
• and that there was less lung cancer when we, as a nation, smoked more.
   
   
  

 

 

Pointing out that there has been evidence for over 40 years that smoking does not cause lung cancer, Dr Little says:

 

"Since the effect of the anti-smoking campaign has been to prevent the genuine cause from being publicly acknowledged, there is a very real sense in which we could say that the main reason for those 30,000 deaths a year from lung cancer is the anti-smoking campaign itself".

 

 

 

 

Just shows that you can find an individual "expert" to back whichever claim you have wish to argue. But as has already been pointed out, the vast majority of experts, who study the field full time, have concluded the earth is heating rapidly. Unless you know something they don't, its a big call to say they are wrong.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Reid A. Bryson holds the 30th PhD in Meteorology granted in the history of American education. Emeritus Professor and founding chairman of the University of Wisconsin Department of Meteorology—now the Department of Oceanic and Atmospheric Sciences—in the 1970s he became the first director of what’s now the UW’s Gaylord Nelson Institute of Environmental Studies. He’s a member of the United Nations Global 500 Roll of Honor—created, the U.N. says, to recognize “outstanding achievements in the protection and improvement of the environment.” He has authored five books and more than 230 other publications and was identified by the British Institute of Geographers as the most frequently cited climatologist in the world.

 

A quote from the late R.A. Bryson -

 

“All this argument is the temperature going up or not, it’s absurd,” Bryson continues. “Of course it’s going up. It has gone up since the early 1800s, before the Industrial Revolution, because we’re coming out of the Little Ice Age, not because we’re putting more carbon dioxide into the air.”

 

Little Ice Age? That’s what chased the Vikings out of Greenland after they’d farmed there for a few hundred years during the Mediaeval Warm Period, an earlier run of a few centuries when the planet was very likely warmer than it is now, without any help from industrial activity in making it that way.

 

Read more at - http://www.wecnmagazine.com/2007issues/may/may07.html

 

 

[kevinfrost]

Any views on "Global Dimming" and I'm not talking intellect.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

IMHO, one days rain would probably remove most of the claimed 'global dimming' causes from the atmosphere.

 

The claimed causes of global dimming are pollution (excluding CO2) something which we in Oz have been working to reduce for a while now. Carnt help bush fires though.

 

Re CO2, every time you exhale you add CO2 to the atmosphere - is it pollution ?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

top gear did a great special, they drove to the north pole, when its apparently impossible now with global warming

If I recall correctly, they also went through the ice and there was a lot of alarming cracking sounds in places. Or did you forget about that little bit?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Thank you for the link to the youtube "paper" :thumb_up:. Most illuminating, and basic science.

Now, to make it completely scientific, you'll have to read a lot more, including from those who say warming is for real. Only then can you make an informed opinion for yourself; just watching one video, with one explanation of how the world works in a way that is easy to understand is not going to do that.

 

 

[Guest J430]

You are 100% correct about one thing..... watching one youtube video is not thorough research.

 

I have done a heck of a lot more than that, problem is I do not have several weeks of my time to spare to sit and type it all out for you.

 

Was just my good fortune that Bob Carter and a few others have done some things that make a simple explaination for general consumption that I could provide a link to.

 

We are and have been for about 10 years now in a cooling process, so watch this space over the next 50 years.

 

J

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Now, to make it completely scientific, you'll have to read a lot more, including from those who say warming is for real. Only then can you make an informed opinion for yourself; just watching one video, with one explanation of how the world works in a way that is easy to understand is not going to do that.

From the "make it completely scientific" angle, I'd have to agree with you basscheffers. Unforetunatly it would seem many people rely upon Al Gore to tell them what to think.

 

I recently got the book The Hot Topic (pro AGW) by Gabrielle Walker and David King. On the cover of this book were comments by Al Gore - "In a world of misinformation, The Hot Topic is a beacon of clarity (I kid you not ) oh, and Tim Flannery (The sulpher man :confused: )

 

Heres some more quotes from the late Reid Bryson (died this month) by many accounts the worlds top climate scientist (google his name) -

 

http://www.wecnmagazine.com/2007issues/may/may07.html

 

Bryson describes the navigational instructions provided for Norse mariners making their way from Europe to their settlements in Greenland. The place was named for a reason: The Norse farmed there from the 10th century to the 13th, a somewhat longer period than the United States has existed. But around 1200 the mariners’ instructions changed in a big way. Ice became a major navigational reference. Today, old Viking farmsteads are covered by glaciers.

 

Bryson mentions the retreat of Alpine glaciers, common grist for current headlines. “What do they find when the ice sheets retreat, in the Alps?”

 

We recall the two-year-old report saying a mature forest and agricultural water-management structures had been discovered emerging from the ice, seeing sunlight for the first time in thousands of years. Bryson interrupts excitedly. “A silver mine! The guys had stacked up their tools because they were going to be back the next spring to mine more silver, only the snow never went,” he says. “There used to be less ice than now. It’s just getting back to normal.”

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

“There used to be less ice than now. It’s just getting back to normal.â€

Unfortunately, for years, earth's temperature has been well above what it was during the "medieval warm period" when those miners packed their tools or Vikings farmed Greenland. So we are past "normal" now.

Also, global warming (and cooling!) causes climate shifts. Meaning that even though the earth overall may be warmer or cooler, specific areas may react differently.

 

For instance, if enough fresh water from the north pole melts and causes a shutdown of the Atlantic Conveyer, Europe and North America will likely enter another ice age.

 

And again, there is consensus on this from all but a few (very vocal!) scientists.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Have a look at this video. Couple of scientists involved in developing NASAs satilite atmospheric temperature readings, and discusing the IPCC findings

 

YouTube - Global Warming: Is The Debate Over?

 

 

[Guest extralite]

as far as i could tell, that video only presented three facts:

 

1. Polar bear population is stable. Thats well known and not in dispute. Its the future polar bear population that is in doubt. Artic sea ice has reduced by around 7% per decade since 1970. Photos here: http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2005/arcticice_decline.html

 

2. Carbon dioxide follows global warming, not preceeds it. Thats not an established fact..all thats established is the correlation.

 

3. Climate change occurs without human intervention. Well established also..its the speed of the climate change that is the worry.

 

Out of the mountains of data showing the temp rises from balloons, satellites inferences, ground based recording, receeding glaciers (check out the new zealand news on that), changes in ocean temp, that that was all that was put forward to support the case that the recent global warming is not man made.

 

Theres a very good doco called "Crude" which is about the Carbon cycle. Earth's carbon changes naturally, over eons, and the climate adapts with it to bring it back into balance. By digging up a lot of that stored carbon and burning it back into the atmosphere within one century, it has accelerated what would have happened naturally anyway. It also points out that its not the earth that needs to be concerned, it has ways of bringing things back into balance. Whatever we do won't hurt it in the long run, it will still be here, and so will life. Its only us that will be inconvenienced.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

as far as i could tell, that video only presented three facts

Extralite, theres a lot more info in that short clip then at first view.

 

The reporter was talking to four scientists that were involved in the oft qouted IPCC report. I find their derogatory comments on the report, and just who was involved in it, interesting.

 

Also interesting that one of the scientists involved had to threaten to sue to get his name removed from the report.

 

 

[Guest J430]

Now we are getting some understanding!

 

J:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Ultralights, I had a look at the Top Gear polar drive last night and see what you mean. Clarkson had an interesting comment re the AGW claims

 

Anyone who has'nt seen just how the ground based temperature records are obtained, may like to have a look at this site -

 

http://www.surfacestations.org/ scroll to the pictures at the bottom of page.

 

A picture record of various USA climate monitoring stations (MMTS) I love all the pictures of airconditioner exorst fans blowing over the stations - lordy it must be hot in those towns

 

http://gallery.surfacestations.org/UCAR-slides/index.html

 

 

[farri]

Global Change.

 

Hi Everyone,

 

My opinion for what it`s worth.

 

Where is it written in stone that the climate must remain the same,year after year,for ever more.

 

The earth has continued to heat and cool since the beginning of time,where were humans then?.

 

It will probably continue to do so until the end of time.

 

Stay Cool,

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

And I thought Artic sea ice was in a bad way...

 

http://igloo.atmos.uiuc.edu/cgi-bin/test/print.sh?fm=06&fd=19&fy=1980&sm=06&sd=19&sy=2008

 

 

[facthunter]

Conclusions.

 

I have concluded that FIREMEN cause fires, because it could be observed that the bigger the fire the more firemen you find there. SIMPLE cause-effect relationship. Nev

 

 

[farri]

Cause-Effect.

 

If firemen cause fires,do sailors cause floods.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

I wonder what pilots cause then...?

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Boring science stuff...

 

From way back in 2001 -

 

ABSTRACT: The annual temperature history of the United States during the 20th century shows 3 distinct periods of change: warming from 1900 until about 1940, cooling from 1940 to 1969, and warming from 1970 to the present.

 

...The warming from 1900 to 1939, the period in the last century that had the least anthropogenic influence, was one in which the greatest rise in temperature occurred during the hottest days of the year.

 

...Prognostications of dire consequences built upon model projections of a climate change dominated by increasing high temperatures should be reassessed based upon a growing body of evidence to the contrary.

 

full report at - http://www.int-res.com/articles/cr/17/c017p045.pdf

 

 

[farri]

I wonder what pilots cause then...?

Must be cyclones, from all the displaced air molecules.

 

Frank.

 

 

[farri]

I wonder what pilots cause then...?

Must be cyclones from all the air molecules they displace.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Looks like the AGW crew were right -

 

The Arctic seems to be warming up. Reports from fishermen, seal hunters, and explorers who sail the seas about Sitzbergen and the eastern Arctic, all point to a radical change in climatic conditions, and hitherto unheard-of high temperatures in that part of the earth's surface.

 

More at -

 

http://docs.lib.noaa.gov/rescue/mwr/050/mwr-050-11-0589a.pdf

 

You will need to scroll down to "The Changing Artic"