Rans S-19 - Your thoughts?

[DPW]

Hi All

 

I have now narrowed down my kit build to 2 aircraft, the Vans RV-12 or the Rans S-19. As far as I can tell, they are both very similar aircraft performance wise, with the only real difference between the two is the RV-12 has removable wings. This may end up being the final selling point as I could keep the aircraft to home in the garage.

 

So I interested to hear peoples opinions on the S-19. Is anyone building one? Has anyone flown one?

 

Cheers

 

Damian

 

 

[gregrobertson]

Hi Damien.

 

I don't want to confuse you but the zodiac 601 XL seem much better value for money to me, very similar performance, proven design, removable wings (not as quick as the Vans) , and a lot cheaper. I don't have one (unfortunately) but there are others on this forum who do and would be far more qualified than I to give advice on them.

 

 

[DPW]

Thanks Greg. So much for what I thought was good research, I hadn't even seen the Zodiac before.

 

I've just spent a hour looking thorugh the Zenith site and our Zenith forum here. It now looks like I have to add the 601 as a third choice.

 

Cheers

 

Damian

 

 

[Thruster87]

The Zenith 601xl is/was my choice and I'm looking forward to the day its completed.It should take about 1hr to put the wings on so not too bad.So far completed the rudder,elevators and now working on the flaps.Very simple and easy to build with most of the holes pre-drilled and no special tools needed other then the pneumatic/hydraulic riveter and I should mention it has as standard, electric flaps and elevator trim. Cheers T87

 

 

[DPW]

T87

 

Is this your first build? Do you think the 601 a good kit for a first timer?

 

Cheers

 

Damian

 

 

[Vision325]

rans s19

 

The Rans S-19 is 799lbs (362.4kgs) empty which makes it a bit on the heavy side.

 

The Vans RV 12 looks great and they are shipping wing kits first.One of which will be on its way to Australia soon.Check out this vans forum. Feed back from builders so far seems positive

 

RV-12 - VAF Forums

 

Steve

 

 

[Thruster87]

Hi DPW, Yes this is my first kit but I should mention I'm a non-current LAME Engines/Airframes + a Level 2 with the RAA .I prefer to work with Aluminum as that is what I mainly worked with and still potter around on vintage A/C like the C47's/DC3 Cheers T87

 

 

[Yenn]

Thruster87.

 

Have a look at WWW.homebuiltairplanes.com/forums for some recent info on the 601. Look at leading edge design. My design concept, last page. The chap who seems to know all that needs to be known about design, has been approached by some builders with info about wing failures. Probably not a serious problem but you may want to read about it.

 

 

[Thruster87]

Here is a link to an article by William Wynne on the integrity of the CH 601XL. It is long, but really worth reading.All that info on the previous forum is rubbish. I tend to believe the builder that suggested, just maybe, some competitors

 

have infiltrated that forum in order to discredit Zenith, Chris or whatever.

 

I really don't think what happened to an aircraft a year ago,

 

in a different country, with different laws , different builders, flying conditions etc. is all that helpful in defining integrity of the design.

 

Knock

 

off the speculation and get back to building. If your worried about the

 

proven 601XL, build something else!

 

http://flycorvair.com/601paper.html (http://flycorvair.com/601paper.html)

 

 

[sain]

Orion is a very well respected aeronautical engineer/design consultant himself.

 

He was saying that there is a group that believes there is an issue and he has been asked by them to take a look at the design, and that the number of accidents of that type in that aircraft exceeds statistical likelyhood. Not sure if he means the litteral "outside 1.5 standard deviations of the norm" or not.

 

He hasn't said that there is or isn't an issue, just that there may be an issue, and if your considering building a ch601xl then you should do your research on it properly (when should you not?)

 

Anyway, I wouldn't discount anything he says as rubbish - its normally very well researched and informative. Again, have a look around the homebuilt aircraft site at some of his comments. He really does know his uhh.. stuff.

 

On the other side of that most of what William Wynne has to say is valid - many aircraft accidents are caused by pilot error, many homebuilders modify designs as they are building them, and lots of people comment and claim design faults on aircraft accidents without reference to the official reports. Its also true that consistently flying into turbulence at speeds well in excess of VA, or hard/heavy manovering at speeds well in excess of VA may cause stress to the airframe structure, and that stress may lead to failures at a later time. All he has really said is fly carefully and safely and within the design envelope of the aircraft and everything will probably be fine (my phraseing). Which is probably true.

 

Chris Heinz has a long history of successful aircraft design, and the CH-601 has a significant number of aircraft flying, including some which have been flying for many years. If it was me I'd do as much research as I could into the aircraft before considering it. Including looking at all available accident reports.

 

Finally I should say that I know bugger all about 601, or about any accident history they may or may not have.

 

 

[jguscott]

Considered a Cheetah?

 

I also am looking and have my shortlist to the RV12 (which apparently has not been approved as LSA in the USA yet, perhaps thats why you can only purchase the wing kits at the moment) and the Morgan aero works Cheetah, an Australian made kit which apparently you can remove the wings in 10 minutes to trailer home.

 

 

[BigPete]

One of my friends (yes, I do have some!) here in Echuca has a Zodiac 601HDS with an 80 hp Rotax in it (three blade ground adj prop). It flies beauitifully and is very responsive at the controls.

 

Putting a bigger motor (Jabiru 3300/Corsair) doesn't seem to make them go that much faster - something to do with the chord of the wing (its quite thick) I'm told.

 

The zodiac has large wheels and wide track which gives good ground control

 

(and smoother landings and take offs).

 

regards

 

 

[Thruster87]

Hi Sain,[He was saying that there is a group that believes there is an issue and he has been asked by them to take a look at the design, and that the number of accidents of that type in that aircraft exceeds statistical likelihood] What I'm saying is that what that group is going on with and saying is speculation [rubbish]All this was discussed on the Matronics forums which became very emotive for some. Look at the first reports of the crash at Surfers earlier this year.Wings folding as stated by eye witnesses but on the beach cam NO SUCH thing happened.So you need to take all that hype with a grain of salt.I'd rather wait for the proper reports. Cheers T87

 

 

[sain]

Hi Thruster87,

 

I hadn't actually noted the hype. I personally know bugger all about CH-601XLs. I'm just pointing out that Orion's viewpoint is generally well worth considering, and dismissing it out of hand as rubbish may not be the best idea.

 

Only considering his viewpoint would also be a bad idea. Its early days at this point, and he may well completly vindicate the CH-601XL design.

 

Again, waiting for all the reports to come out would be a good idea.

 

I'm interested in your opinion of the quality of the CH-601 kit though - I'm in the early phases of determining what sort of aircraft I want, and the CH-701 is a pretty strong contender at this point.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Thruster87]

Orion's views are only based on hearsay and innuendo.He clearly states that and then goes on to speculate which is very unprofessional.There are 100's flying out there with many hours with no problems.But like you say time will tell.Personnelly I would welcome a professional second opinion from him or someone else with the expertise to settle the debate once and for all with a total test regine not just the static. The 601xl kit appears to be of excellent quality, no hiccups so far.Cheers T87:thumb_up: