First purchase where to start

[Guest coolmango]

Hi All

 

I thought I would look over the horizon into clearer skies and get further opinion. There seems a wealth of know how out there and I want to hook into it. Let me be clear. I am a beginner -all be it passionate and keen to fly.

 

I am exploring my options / models for a first RA-Aus aircraft purchase . My budget is no more 20K. less would be good - the family likes to eat on occassion. I am learning in a drifter, but would rather own something enclosed. It needs to be a two seater.

 

I am in no rush to buy, and I am happy to comprimise on the spead she travels at. I would even consider a project, but not sure where to start. Oh. I am not retired, I have to work so it will be a weekend passon.

 

Some say buy new, some say buy second hand - or a project. Others say synicate again others tell me to own solely - Can you "test fly" when you are in the market ? I thought you needed at 5 hours in the model you fly.

 

I live in Queensland incase that is relivant.

 

So I would be keen to read your thoughts, web links would be good, I am an enthusesitc but I don't know what "I dont know" !

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

[sain]

Probably your best bet is to determine what your desires are, and then go looking for aircraft to suit.

 

For example - do you want to travel long distances regularly in it? If you are, would you be happy if it took several hours to get there? Do you want to take a passenger when you go flying, or do you enjoy the solitude? What about landing in paddocks etc, or even on lakes?

 

All these things will affect your choice of aircraft, along with asthetics etc.

 

It might be worthwhile having a look through the members market section of the RA-AUS mag, to see what you can get for the type of money you want to spend, and then do a bit of research on those aircraft. If your not an ra-aus member yet, and cant get the mag at your local newsagency, the market is also available online at http://www.raa.asn.au/market/index.html - without pictures unfortunately. Check every month or so, there are always new aircraft coming in and out.

 

Oh, and don't forget to have a chat to your flying instructor about the aircraft too - they may have some useful information for you.

 

best of luck!

 

 

[Guest coolmango]

Hi

 

It is just me and the wife, maybe a tent and a sleeping bag. mostly me I guess on my own - by the time I get to finish my RA AUs pilots licience. I expect it will just flying localling around the airfield I will hanggar in Boonah Queensland.

 

I am happy to land where ever. I am going to be using a grass strip mostly.

 

I expect short trips is all I would be looking at. Weekend is all I have. And speed of Aircraft is no problem as I just want to fly on weekends.

 

All the guys where I plan to haggar have either drifters or lightwings. So any trips I do, would mean speed would not be an issue, as I would do flyaways with this crowd for the forseeable future.

 

With a budget of no more that $20,000 I guess it is limited what I can have. Doors would be good.

 

I do look at the members market - but I am trying to get educated as to what I can have for my money, so I can reconise value and fair price too.

 

What do you fly and why did you choose it ?

 

Thanks for the input.

 

 

[Guest Baphomet]

SALES SPIEL - I have a Bantam for sale which I would describe as semi-enclosed, and would meet most of your requirements. As I fly out of the lockyer valley, a test flight is no problem, you can go up with my instructor, and get an unbiased viewpoint. Send me a PM, and I'll send you a few photos and a couple of short .wav clips of the beast flying.

 

Cheers

 

Ian

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Hi Again,

 

Without pouring cold water all over the place I will offer my standard advice - DO NOT BUY OR COMMIT TO ANY AIRCRAFT UNTIL YOU ARE QUALIFIED! Your views and goals may change drasitically by then.

 

That does not stop you looking about to see what may fit your present desire, and possibly changing views later.

 

If you go to the 'User Groups' section of this forum you will pick up a lot of info on various types. The Thruster sub group has a direct link to my web site and will give you a lot of info on the Thrusters - which is in the same category and price range as what you are flying.

 

Aye

 

Tony

 

 

[sain]

Well, sounds like you want a 2 seater.

 

An X-Air could be an option - you can get those as a kit, though i suspect you'd tip a little over the 20k mark once its fully kitted out (definately if you go with the hanuman version). (http://www.mcp.com.au/xair/index.html)

 

A rans s-12 might also fit your needs (http://www.rans.com/s-12xl.htm - also a kit). Again, a complete kitout might tip you over.

 

Baphomet's bantam b22 could be a good choice too, though i'd check it out. They are supposed to be a lot of fun to fly.

 

To get under the $20k limit though your probably looking at a secondhand aircraft, or a kitbuilt, or possibly a single seater.

 

Personally I fly the local flying school's Gazelle. because i can't make up my mind what I want. At the moment I'm leaning towards a kit built Zenith CH-701(http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/index1.html), which would suit my needs for 2 person travel (or one with a bunch of equipment) and nice short take off and landing capability for one of the locations I would like to fly to and from regularly. At the same time i'm leaning towards something like a hummelbird (http://www.flyhummel.com/) or a BK-1.3 (http://www.bkfliers.com/) for journeys to and from places. My lovely lady would get left behind though, which could result in her looking like and me looking like :black_eye:.

 

Anyway, lots of choices out there - best of luck!

 

*edit* noticed this::

 

 

1344 Avid Flyer S.T.O.L. Rotax 532 engine and airframe approx 130 hrs only. Always hangared, currently Horsham VIC. Good condition 2 place aircraft long range fuel tanks, large tyres S.T.O.L. characteristics, wings fold back for storage. $20,000 negotiable. Contact Steve Monaghan Ph 0429 788 262.

 

in the ra-aus market - very cheap for a 2 place, might be close to what your after

 

 

[sain]

Good advice Tony. I'd agree with that actually - Your views on what your after will probably change a lot as you go through your training. Mine certainly did.

 

 

[Guest coolmango]

Hi Tony

 

Thanks for the input... steady as she goes - I am still doing the ground work before I commit to purchasing anything at all. So I wont be buying anything until I have a my own endosements.

 

I expect I am buying second hand. I am lucky that I have a number of "old hands" around me who are keen to get invovled with my purchase. however I need to feel comfortable with the what is in the market. As I stated i am looking over my own horizon....

 

As a side note: I was also deciding (at one point long gone) if I should consider building my own design that I have blue printed (to the last screw) and tested as a scale model. Sadly it wont happen. I expect it will live in my spare room for eternity as I will never have the vast amounts of money to build her and have her rated. I can't make my model stall.... climbs like a rocket... will glide for ever when I cut power to the engine, even gains altitude, in the right conditions (to my surprise).

 

I am in no rush - at all.

 

 

[sain]

umm.. just as a point - you don't actually need to have your design "rated" or certified.

 

check out: http://www.raa.asn.au/constructors/index.html

 

To qoute:

 

In Australia anyone can design their own ultralight aeroplane, fabricate and assemble it at home then fly it without need for either the design or the construction to meet any designated standard. Or an ultralight aeroplane – of a previously accepted design – can be fabricated and assembled utilising an RA-Aus approved, commercially supplied, set of drawings and/or a data package. Of course for such aeroplanes to be flown the pilot must have a valid RA-Aus pilot certificate, the aircraft must have valid RA-Aus registration and be initially confined to a designated testing location.

 

If it was me though, i'd get something to fly in while i'm designing and building.

 

 

[Guest Baphomet]

Well, sounds like you want a 2 seater. An X-Air could be an option - you can get those as a kit, though i suspect you'd tip a little over the 20k mark once its fully kitted out (definately if you go with the hanuman version). (http://www.mcp.com.au/xair/index.html)

 

A rans s-12 might also fit your needs (http://www.rans.com/s-12xl.htm - also a kit). Again, a complete kitout might tip you over.

 

Baphomet's bantam b22 could be a good choice too, though i'd check it out. They are supposed to be a lot of fun to fly.

 

To get under the $20k limit though your probably looking at a secondhand aircraft, or a kitbuilt, or possibly a single seater.

 

Personally I fly the local flying school's Gazelle. because i can't make up my mind what I want. At the moment I'm leaning towards a kit built Zenith CH-701(http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/index1.html), which would suit my needs for 2 person travel (or one with a bunch of equipment) and nice short take off and landing capability for one of the locations I would like to fly to and from regularly. At the same time i'm leaning towards something like a hummelbird (http://www.flyhummel.com/) or a BK-1.3 (http://www.bkfliers.com/) for journeys to and from places. My lovely lady would get left behind though, which could result in her looking like and me looking like :black_eye:.

 

Anyway, lots of choices out there - best of luck!

 

*edit* noticed this::

 

 

1344 Avid Flyer S.T.O.L. Rotax 532 engine and airframe approx 130 hrs only. Always hangared, currently Horsham VIC. Good condition 2 place aircraft long range fuel tanks, large tyres S.T.O.L. characteristics, wings fold back for storage. $20,000 negotiable. Contact Steve Monaghan Ph 0429 788 262.

 

in the ra-aus market - very cheap for a 2 place, might be close to what your after

Hi Sain,

In the time I have had the Bantam, I would have spent over $5000 on hire charges to do the hrs in a Drifter. I expect to sell the Bantam for around what I paid for it, so I am essentially flying for the price of fuel + maint (very little on that so far) - go and buy something!!, you won't regret it. I like the BK, lovely plane, and if you like that you will love this

 

http://www.thatchercx4.com/

 

On another point, a friend of mine has a 90% finished Hummel, that he's interested in selling (he's started a 2 seater), so if you are interested in a project, let me know and I'll put you in touch. (I have no idea what he wants for it)

 

Ian

 

 

[Ultralights]

for Under $20k!!!!

 

why, look no thurther..

 

 

no, mine isnt for sale, but there is one in Maryborough i know of that is! and you can get them for quite a bit less than $20K!

 

 

[seb7701]

Is the vampire advertised anywhere and what sort of nick?

 

 

[Guest coolmango]

Ok.. I had a thought over the weekend. I was looking at the picture of the Vamp above. Lovely... bit the "grey matter" started to get into gear...

 

Please and happily correct me if I am wrong. It is the point of the exercise. I want to educate myself.

 

If you train for your RA- AUS you need (must ???) to stick to one type of aircraft, In my case a drifter. it would be nice if I could do it in two differnet types but that is a story in itself.. Anyway back to tthe point.

 

So say I have my solo endorsement, I expect it only qualify’s me to Solo in a drifter. So how does one do a test flight in several aircraft to find out what they like ?.. also if I buy something other than a drifter (more than likely) do i then need to find someone to instruct me for 5 hours in it ?

 

before some of you all panic and say " don't rush out and buy..." I don't plan on buying for 6 months, but I want to enjoy the experience and learn as I go. So this is just one of those questions that I wondering about.

 

I will be buying something probably in the new year ( no I wont be rushing into anything...) As a family man in my early 40's it is a big expense so it will be tacked onto my home loan. So I am doing the ground work, as I have more passion than money....

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

It is always wiser to remain with a single type for the bulk of training - probably having sampled a few types as TIFs to see what you like.

 

Having said that - a local school run by Kev Walters has come up with a new programme that I like very much and really suits the 'new RAAus' requirements.

 

Although Kev's school is small and very personally orientated, it does have several aircraft. Kev starts people on the Drifter and gets them sufficiently far in it to be certain of getting a tail dragger and LP endoresement. He then completes their training in a Tecnam so they get HP and nosewheel - plus they come out with both two and four stroke endorsements.

 

He can go further and extend the 'course' to include cross country in the Tecnam. He spreads this out over a time period so that there is good absorption retention.

 

This is a very practical and pro-student package that I like very much. On the other hand Kev is a vastly experienced guy and can hack it!

 

 

[Guest brentc]

No need to stick to the same aircraft, however it might be prudent to stay with the same one to speed things up a little overall to get your cert quicker and more cheaply.

 

There aren't many options for 'testing' different aircraft types other than trying to get yourself up with an owner for a sample of what it's like.

 

It's a bit of a catch-22, I found that when I didn't have an aircraft or when I had my Aerochute, I was never ever offered a ride by anyone in their *real* aircraft, however when I owned my first *real* aircraft (a Gazelle), every man and his dog wanted to take me for a ride, because they wanted a ride in mine. It's funny how it works.

 

My advice is to stretch as much as you can to afford something a little better - that way you may avoid the need to upgrade sooner rather than later. Eg, if you're thinking 1 seat, think about trying to get a 2 seater, then you'll be more content for longer.

 

Good luck.

 

 

[Guest coolmango]

Hi Brent

 

Thanks for the input. I know what you mean by the catch 22.

 

 

[Yenn]

If you want to go for a single seater, you will have to demonstrate to the seller that you are a capable pilot before you will get a chance to take it for a trial run, and that means quite a few hours experience, so I think you are stuck with a two seater. If you train in a Thruster you should be capable of flying most other types, but maybe training in another type would restrict you to that type. If there are others around in a similar situation a syndicate may be good for you, especially as you seem to be wanting to do local flying rather than long trips away.

 

 

[Guest coolmango]

Hi Ian

 

Thanks for your input. A single seater was never an option. The wife demands she have a seat.... I am happy to oblidge when I am able to take her up... We are looking forward to the sociaol aspect of flying - so all that is part of the big picture. longer term we hope to go on fly aways with the club we have joined.

 

I am training in a drifter, which I am advised should offer the same sort of opportunities as learning in a thruster ( seems to me anyway...)

 

I am not keen on the idea of shared ownership or a syndicate, as I have heard some sorry tales of disaapointment. Also other people I know are steering me away from a joint ownership option also. Still I don't know - I certainly don't have the years up that most of you seem to have.

 

 

[Yenn]

You may be right to steer clear of joint ownership, but I know it works well for some. I nearly went into joint ownership with a bloke who later became known as "Flipper" for his ability to overturn Jabirus. Maybe I was lucky I didn't, or maybe I could have been a restraining influence on him and saved him from trouble.

 

 

[Guest ramcam]

you might get a secondhand minicab or something similar that needs a little work. might need a little work though

 

 

[storchy neil]

my 2cents worth i have to agree with brentc :)that by stretching the budget get an aircraft that suits your plans of what you want to do

 

when i bought my storch s the out lay was a lot and i am not sorry factory built

 

but dont strech it to far:crying: neil

 

 

[Guest coolmango]

Hi Storchy ( and all the other guys who have posted here !!)

 

Well, I am still no closer to knowing - or having an solid idea - of what I should buy or consider, I will keep on looking in the classifieds.

 

At this point I will be buying outright, probably second hand, and 2 seats (not tandem). I might consider a partnership, if the right person came along with an aircraft that will do the job and we can both agree how the partnership would operate. perhaps closer ot my age too (40-ish???), and close to where I can get to from home (which is basicly Brisbane)

 

I will just keep my eyes open anyway, and I might even be able to spend more than the $20k I had set as my budget, as it seems for a little bit extra, you get a whole lot more of aircraft.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

DO NOT BUY OR COMMIT TO ANY AIRCRAFT UNTIL YOU ARE QUALIFIED!

I'll second that!

 

An X-Air could be an option - you can get those as a kit, though i suspect you'd tip a little over the 20k mark once its fully kitted out (definately if you go with the hanuman version). (http://www.mcp.com.au/xair/index.html)

Good choice. Excellent little plane these things. Michael Coates is located in Queensland too so it might be handy for you to give him a call and go for a fly in one. His number will be on the website somewhere.

 

Great video of them here that highlights their capabilities - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XzSjj64XpLI"

 

Note: I wouldn't encourage this type of flying but it is good to watch!

 

 

[Guest coolmango]

Ok... X-Air looks like the "the ducks proverbials". But I can't configure it with their pricing below 40K from their website (with the Oz dollar falling their pricing is still from Setp 2007). I could strech to 30k for one of these

 

( the wife may develop a whine/growl upon pushing this budget limit - I wil need to keep an eye on the guages...)

 

...., but bugger me... I am keen to take a TIF or a trial flight in one of these ...

 

Maybe I can find one second hand, but I wont be buying until I know what I am getting...

 

Seems like alot of enigne choices.. looking for an engine that wil be middle of the road - I guess the most common - afforsdability is key. I want to keep her for a good while, so I want to get it right upfront as it were.

 

Just to clarify, I want to buy in about 6 months, but when I buy I want to be sure of what I am getting and have no regrets. Reasearch. however if a bargan came along I am sure I can get a possie opf well expereinced people to ensure I am getting agood deal and I know what I am in for.

 

Does anyone want to leave me their aircraft in their will ? ;) I will look after her, like you were still here !

 

 

[Admin]

Coolmango - if it was me personally I would be talking to Tony (TOSG) about a Thruster - not sure on the dollars but one of my objectives this year is to get certified in one - you can be absolutly guarranteed of 101% support and help wherever you are - I can't say that any stronger :big_grin: