Putting a Jabiru on line?

[Guest Guest]

Howdy all, I've been considering purchasing a Jabiru, as someone from a GA background the Jabiru's look absolutely amazing to me in performance and cost. I'm considering buying a Jabiru (not sure what model yet, still investigating it all - and doing my conversion on one). Due to my work commitments which take me all over country NSW and elsewhere so it would be handy to me, but I am keen to know what the possibilites are of owning one and putting it on line somewhere either Sydney basin (up to Blue mountains) or Warnervale furthest to the North, the oaks, Wedderburn etc. would all also be fine, please let me know your thoughts...

 

 

[Guest aaronb]

There a great plane, like you i was GA but ive nilly done my conversion and im looking foward to navs :P, like you said the preformance and the cost compared to some GA planes these days, well you know, i live im melbourne and to train and i shopped around for GA when i 1st started and it started out ok only $200 per lesson now since landing fee and what not have gorne up i was nilly $300 per hour! so i switched to the jab, $175 per hour and no landing fee and i feel it better for skills building and it way out preforms the old GA stuff by far.

 

ide be looking to buy one 2 but im only 20 years of age and still have my ute to pay off :P but that is next on the cards :P

 

thats my 2c

 

 

[Ultralights]

How about a Jabiru at Bankstown, would get plenty of hours there as all the competition is GA C152s etc etc. PPL students can do hours in RAA aircraft as long as the Instructor is rated. though im sure others could elaborate.

 

 

[Guest Guest]

Ultralights that would be ideal, I'm just not sure about how many dual rated instructors there are out there, apart from places like Scone where I know the guy is dual rated...

 

 

[bushpilot]

There a great plane, like you i was GA but ive nilly done my conversion and im looking foward to navs :P, like you said the preformance and the cost compared to some GA planes these days, well you know, i live im melbourne and to train and i shopped around for GA when i 1st started and it started out ok only $200 per lesson now since landing fee and what not have gorne up i was nilly $300 per hour! so i switched to the jab, $175 per hour and no landing fee and i feel it better for skills building and it way out preforms the old GA stuff by far. ide be looking to buy one 2 but im only 20 years of age and still have my ute to pay off :P but that is next on the cards :P

 

thats my 2c

$175 an hour is a lot! 2 instructors out my way - country NSW - have Jabs and charge $110...

 

 

[old man emu]

The Jabiru is a very nice light wieght plane which is quite suitable to the owner/pilot's needs.

 

If I was going to buy one and put it on line at a flying school in the Sydney Basin (Bankstown or Camden) there are a few things I'd make sure were considered in determining the hourly rate I'd be asking for.

 

1. The plane will be used for ab initio training. That means that it will suffer from heavy landings, hard braking and generally rough treatment on the ground. Expect to experience damage to the nose wheel and firewall at some stage. It is also easy for a student to suffer a prop strike on landing. With luck, you'll only be up for a new prop and labour, but there is the risk of bending the crankshaft. If that happened, I'd expect damage further down the fuselage.

 

2. Every Tom, Dick and Harry will be using your plane. The rate of wear and tear will be a lot higher than if it was only you flying it. Basically, the plane will get tatty looking much quicker.

 

3. Along with regular wear and tear, there is the possibility of occasional accident damage. For example, if someone doesn't pull their arms in while closing the doors, their elbow could hit and crack the door window. It's not a quick and easy job to replace the window, adding to the overall cost (parts and labout) of the job.

 

4. Your plane will run up hours a lot more quickly than it would if it was not on line. This would mean an accelerated depreciation rate should be applied to its value. Say a recreational pilot flew 50 hours per year. A plane on line at a busy school could easily fly 100 hours per month.

 

If you are conscious of the likely extra costs arising from greater useage, not just the known costs (cost of 100 hourly, rego, insurance, hangarage) then you would be wise to ask for a price that allows for the inevitable emergency repairs. For that reason, the cost of dry hire would need to approach that asked for, say an ab initio trainer type from Cessa or Piper. For the student, there might be a saving due to a lower fuel useage, but the Instructor should still cost the same.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[leestanley]

great advice O M E... thank you.

 

from what you have said you should also select the school very carefully... check out their existing aircraft and talk to the CFI.

 

i guess you would also nned to be conscious that you may not always be able to fly when u wanted to if they had the a/c booked for training...

 

lee.

 

 

[leestanley]

great advice O M E... thank you.

 

from what you have said you should also select the school very carefully... check out their existing aircraft as a guide to how yours will be treated and talk to the CFI.

 

i guess you would also need to be conscious that you may not always be able to fly when u wanted to if they had the a/c booked for training...

 

lee.

 

 

[bushpilot]

Can anyone tell me what registration restrictions apply for aircraft that are going to be used for student training - for a fee? I thought that only LSA registered 3-axis planes can be used for teaching 3-axis(?) i.e. not home builds or even factory assisted builds.

 

If so, that becomes a consideration in selecting an aircraft to go on-line; and LSAs are generally more expensive - even when same type of aircraft.

 

Cheers

 

Chris

 

 

[Guest brentc]

The only time that you can train in a home-built, is if you are the builder of the aircraft. eg. You and your wife build it, so you can both be trained with an instructor onboard.

 

Currently Certified RA aircraft AND LSA in the 2 rego categories aircraft can be used for training. LSA can be GA or RA-Aus registered.

 

At this point I am unsure if you can 'hire' a homebuilt off someone.

 

 

[bushpilot]

Thanks for that Brent. So I guess the simplest check for non-GA aircraft is if it's RA-Aus 55 registered, its ok to train in...(?)

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Almost - Either 55, 24, 28 or 32.

 

I hope I haven't missed any.

 

It gets a little confusing when people advertise Jabiru's as they often say "factory built" but they mean factory "assist." One of the key give-aways is "For sale, factory built Jabiru, 85 litre tank, etc, etc" - Factory LSA jabs come with 68 litres? so the 85 is a homebuilt. I hope that clears it up for you.

 

 

[maxamos]

Brent or anyone else,

 

What does the Jabiru factory assist involve. I realise that it is building your jabiru kit at the jab factory, but are there various programs / stages or just one, how long does it go for, and what is the cost.

 

If you go the factory assist option, do you still qualify for the owner built regulations ?

 

Thanks Kirk

 

 

[Rallye]

factory assist

 

Hi Maxamos,

 

I contacted Jabiru as I had been told about a Factory Assist. They told me there was no such thing. There is a builder assist program, but that is a seperate entity, and they gave me name and phone, email address, which I believe I still have. They did not reply at all and that was two months ago, perhaps they have all the business they need at the moment. As I understand it the self build umbrella is slightly fudged under this arrangement. Technically I suppose both the builder and perhaps a employee/owner of the organization could or should be named as self builders and you continue as a normal self build project as far as the normal privileges go. All the best Dave

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Factory assist / builder assist, just terminology to keep them legal and above board. It's a third party contractor that does the building. You generally go there, stay in a motel and they build it with you. You help as much as you can or as little and the price is adjusted accordingly. From memory if you are there for around 4-5 weeks it costs something like $13-$14K plus painting. Painting a J160 might be around $3k or perhaps more, depending on how much preparation you do for them. Last price I heard was for a mate who went there for a month and shelled out around $60k for his SP model with 4 cylinder finished.

 

The name of the company is AMI. They probably aren't interested in talking to you unless you have bought your kit though as they probably get 100 calls a day about it just tyre-kicking.

 

In theory you could build your aircraft to a certain point with them, however you'd have to take it home on a trailer if it was only part finished. I guess it could get a little difficult to transport.

 

It is commonly known that this operation is not legal in terms of amateur building rules, however you'd need to speak to our Technical Manager regarding the specifics. One of the 'rumoured' tricks is to take lots of photos whilst you are building the plane and to wear a different shirt every hour so that it looks like you were there from start to finish.

 

I welcome our Technical Manager's comments on the legality of this operation in terms of our Technical / Operations manual.