Cutting it fine

[Guest airsick]

This isn't an incident per se and certainly isn't an accident but it is still time for me to 'fess up.

 

A guy at work has been pestering me to take him for a flight for some time now so I told him I would oblige yesterday lunch time. Unfortunately something came up and the lunch time plans were cancelled. Instead we opted to knock off early and go for a quick jolly then.

 

I looked up the end of daylight which was 1741 local and figured with a 4 - 4:30 'ish take off that would give us time to have a bit of a fly around and get back before dark. Canberra can get a bit busy in the afternoons so instead of bothering them with a city flight I chose to go out into one of the training areas, fly around for a bit and then return home before it got too late. Being aware that Canberra gets busy at this time of the day meant that I should have known better.

 

Rolling into runway 12 we were given a clearance to the training area at 4000' and throttled up for an uneventful take off and flight to the area. After a quick look at some local features I called in requesting to return home and this is where it began to get a bit awry.

 

While in the area ATC asked me to remain on the approach frequency which meant I was aware of the traffic building up on the way into Canberra. Qantas, Virgin and several smaller charter operations are regular flyers and there was some military traffic present as well. When I asked to come back I was given a 20 minute delay. This is not unusual in itself and normally I don't mind, I figure at 12 litres an hour it is much cheaper for me to wait than have a line up of fast heavies waiting for me. Today was different however, last light was approaching so I asked to be brought back sooner rather than later. ATC obliged by vectoring us in for an approach on 17 and we touched down shortly after.

 

As we pulled into the GA parking area I looked at my watch and it was spot on 1741. We probably had around 10 minutes of taxiing after landing due to hold ups crossing runways and so forth which meant we would have been on the ground with little time to spare.

 

All in all the flight was smooth and there were no real hassles. Visibility was fine throughout the flight and there was no real danger. As we were tying the aircraft down and packing up it began to get dark and driving home I had the headlights on.

 

The regulations state that you cannot depart unless your ETA is at least 10 minutes before last light after allowing for any holding. It is this latter point that caught me out in this instance, holding. I knew Canberra could get busy but didn't account for this delay and it could have easily left me in a situation with a not so happy ending.

 

So what led me to cut it so fine? I put it down to trying to please someone who I felt I had let down. I told them I would take them for a flight and felt guilty when I had to cancel. In order to make them feel better I rescheduled for later that day and while it was really a non-event I left little margin for error and it could have quickly turned pear shaped. Next time I won't be so eager to please and will be happy to plan for another day. As I sit typing this the weather is crystal clear and there is not a breath of air blowing through the trees, today would have been a much better option.

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Good post Airsick! Means you learned something and by posting it it also means that we collectively can learn something from it.

 

I have also been a position where people have asked to go flying with me. however I did not like the handling the handling of the plane 2 pax up that I flew at the time (lets say I am big boned ;)). It took a fair bit of decision making to say no. I would rather be in that position than lying in hospital.

 

Regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[motzartmerv]

G'day..Sounds like you just kept it legal.. Outside influences can really alter our views on go or no go sometimes, probably shouldn't, but often do.

 

The other day the chief and his wife brought in family friends to the school.. A mother and her 2 sons about 7 and 10.. The boss asked me if id mind taking them one at a time for a circuit each in the jab..Of course i said i would..

 

It just happend that on that day the main runway at camden was closed because they were filming an episode of top gear and had all the taxiways closed down aswell..(by the way, IanR saw the STIG and knows his identity but the bugga won't tell hehe)

 

anyway to cut a long story short, the winds were very strong, about 25 kts but favouring the grass so it wasn't so bad..

 

So reluctantly i loaded the first kid in and blasted off.. Of course just after liftoff the winds swung round to be about 40-50 deg off the left nose on final for 28..GGGRRLLL, i was kicking myself, i knew this would happen..I managed to get the thing down no problems but it was a little more exiting then what i would have liked..The kid loved it, he was literally screaming with joy at the bumps on downwind..

 

I reckon we are all suseptable to outside influences, although i'd like to think i learned my lesson.. I didnt take the other kid until much later when the winds had eased off..

 

Airsick, did your friend enjoy the flight?? reckon we'll get a new member out if it??;)

 

cheers

 

 

[40years]

APPROACH didn't help!

 

Airsick, having been in the business, as an apprroach controller I wouldn't be giving delays that would compromise last light - in fact I would have been the initiator on bringing you back. Granted they pushed you up the ladder when you asked, but it looks like someone wasn't thinking.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

ATC was quite helpful, maybe they did have a momentary brain fade but I have found the guys here in Canberra to be more than helpful in the past and they were no different yesterday.

 

This is a situation that I got myself into and I accept full responsbility for it.

 

And yes, my passenger did enjoy the flight. Will he join us? Don't know, time will tell.

 

 

[Mazda]

Airsick it seems that you did plan to be back 10 minutes before last light, and you were down by last light. I think that 10 minutes is the buffer - and you used it which is OK.

 

Sometimes I think the Americans have the right idea with their PPLs because they must do a some night flying as part of it, and they don't have a separate night rating. I know, us Aussies probably do get better night training, and we probably need it with all the really dark areas we have here. But at least all of their pilots have night experience and would be legal to land after last light in this situation.

 

I saw at ATSB report not so long ago about a pilot heading for Canberra who ran out of light and had to land in a paddock. It's a shame because the pilot wasn't far from Canberra.

 

I'm not sure though about their recreational regulations for night flight.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Airsick it seems that you did plan to be back 10 minutes before last light, and you were down by last light. I think that 10 minutes is the buffer - and you used it which is OK.

In the end I don't think I did anything wrong I just cut it fine. With respect to the 10 minute buffer it isn't a fixed buffer, it is 10 minutes including any holding time. I think the bit that may have gotten me into trouble is not accounting for the holding. In the end it didn't but I (and I hope others) can still learn something from it. And not specifically from the end of light issue but more importantly being unduly influenced by other factors as Moz mentioned.

 

I think your points re the American system have some merit. I suspect that having an independent rating such as in Australia does lead to more thorough training but question whether landing in a paddock due to no training is safer than landing on a strip at night with some training. There's a whole new thread in this topic alone...

 

 

[Yenn]

So how would I go? If I was close to a lighted strip as darkness descended i would not hesitate to land on the strip rather than put down in a paddock. If needs be I would call ATC for a clearance and also declare an emergency. There would be a much better chance of a safe outcome, even if the law was broken.

 

The few night landings I have done were interesting, as Gladstone strip has a hump in the middle, so late in the approach, the far lights start to disappear.

 

 

[Mazda]

Understood Yenn, but there are other issues. Imagine a pilot who has never flown at night with minimal instrument time, who doesn't know how to navigate to the field without familiar landmarks, doesn't know how to activate the PAL, and doesn't know about the night illusions. Maybe they haven't thought about lowest safe. That's why I think the American system has some advantages - the training might not be extensive, but it would probably get them safely to a field.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Any new young pilot thinking about 'arriving late' just to experience some night flying should think again. There are books written specifically about the dangers of night flying.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

It just happend that on that day the main runway at camden was closed because they were filming an episode of top gear and had all the taxiways closed down aswell..

Cool, so that would be the new Aussie version of the show? Is it on yet somewhere?

My BitTorrent client still faithfully downloads the previous night's BBC version on Monday morning. :big_grin:

 

Did you see the Veyron vs. Eurofighter race last season, where the Typhoon only barely won? The brother of a friend was a programmer on the Typhoon sim in Germany and after seeing the show they had to give it a go - turns out the plane would have beat the car by a wide margin if the pilot had the same blatant disregard for his life as the test pilot did in the sim. ;)

 

 

[motzartmerv]

haha...not sure, don't know if its started here yet has it??...they were demo'ing some little black sportscar..i never saw it up close, so not sure what it was...But they were up it alright...all day.. all ya could hear apart from acft, was the howling tires and engine revving hard...was a sweet sound...ooooohhh yea...lol...

 

can't wait to see the show....mabye a few shots of a little jab fighting a xwind in the background..hehe

 

cheers:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

Sounds like yer excited about being a TV star there Motza

 

 

[motzartmerv]

hehe...can only hope mate...looked like they were havin fun i tell ya, the car over took us on the strip while we were on downwind, so musta been hootin..

 

cheers