Log Books

[stevenpam]

Hi All,

 

Not sure whether this belongs here or in "Training & Student Pilots" - I guess either is OK.

 

Anyway... my story is no doubt a familiar one. After a decade or two of distractions and false starts I have finally taken what feels like a real (if tiny) step towards starting my flight training: I sent off for my RA-Aus student pilot membership!

 

So I'm beginning to think about next steps - one of which is that of course I'm going to need a logbook to record my adventures in flying.

 

I know this is a minor detail in the scheme of things, but I guess I'm going to have it for a long time so I want to make sure I get the most suitable one if possible.

 

That's where things get a little tricky.... the only logbook I've actually held in my hands is the hardback ATC (Aviation Theory Centre) one. My impressions: the quality is good and it looks like it will withstand a bit of abuse, and last the distance. It seems kind of large and heavy to be lugging around in your flight bag (and it's hard for me to imagine filling it in my lifetime!) but I guess there's also a trade-off there - a small logbook might be hard to fill out.

 

So my questions are:

 

• Out of the easily available logbooks out there (e.g. ATC, CASA, Airservices, ASA, Zuluworks, etc), which one(s) have you used or seen? Which are your favourites and why?
   
   
  
• I gather that most/all of them conform to some sort of ICAO standard - so are there any problems/issues around using the non-Australian ones?
   
   
  

 

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Cheers,

 

Steven

 

 

[facthunter]

Log books.

 

It is a requirement to have one, but in an "ultralight" every bit of weight counts. Even the good quality ones get very dog-eared after a while, and all the pages are starting to fall out of my first one even though it was recovered and bound. Get some small cheap thing that has the right columns in it , and when it's full, store it and start another. You just transfer your times from the end of one to the next. Nev..

 

 

[farri]

Log book.

 

Steven,

 

A log book is simply a book to keep flying records in.

 

As far as I`m aware you can make your own as long as it has the information required in it,simply copy the details into a book of your choice, this is what I have done.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[stevenpam]

Thanks Nev and Frank, good stuff.

 

Frank, that may be so. I know people use all sorts of things, including electronic versions. My thinking is that one benefit of using a mainstream, GA-type logbook, is that if I do move onto the PPL, I can keep the logbook and have a record of all of my flying in one place.

 

On the other hand, if I never end up going for a GA license, I guess all those columns about night and instrument hours are just extra weight to carry around!

 

Does anyone else want to get specific about what they are using and why?

 

 

[PaulN]

Hi Steven,

 

Welcome to one of the sweeter corners of cyberspace.

 

Contact RA-Aus (0262804700). They have just what you're asking for. An RA-Aus pilot log book, A5 paperback with columns specific to your use .... and light.

 

Paul

 

 

[Guest Elk McPherson]

I started with the CAA logbooks (#s 1 & 2) but they stopped making them a couple of years ago. Logbooks 3 and 4 are the ATC model.

 

You are right - they are durable, well presented and have all the columns you will need. And they're only $20!

 

The RAAus one (sorry guys) always looked more suitable for a vehicle logbook than a lifetime record of your flying career (be it a private career or a professional one). I always told my students not to bother with the Ultralight one and get the other.

 

Question for you: Why would you carry it around with you? There is no requirement to do so and most flying schools ask you to leave it on the premises of the school, so they can check it or present it at an audit.

 

I put all mine on an excel spreadsheet and write it into the "nice copy" at the end of the month.

 

Happy flying:thumb_up:

 

Finally

 

 

[stevenpam]

Elk, I've only seen a photo of the RA-Aus books but someone else also told me that they are a little on the flimsy side.

 

Of course, getting books hard bound is probably expensive proposition and it's nice that there is that cheap, lightweight option available for people who want it.

 

But I do like the idea of having something that feels durable, permanent and important.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I just started using LogTen Pro on my Mac, though for now everything is double-entered into the ATC one I keep at the school so they keep track during training. You can add lots of information and make reports that conform to any authority's standards. And you can back it up! If you have an iPhone or iPod Touch, you can also get the mobile version and have it with you in a lightweight package. It's only on Mac, but I imagine similar solutions run on Windows and Windows Mobile.

 

I am not so sure if lightweight is that important, you don't actually have to take it on board, do you? Maybe every once in a while when you fly somewhere you want to have it one the other end, but I would imagine that a rare occasion.

 

Cheers,

 

Bas.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

I use the aviation theory cente logbook. Practical, robust and not so small it gets lost.

 

As others have pointed out you don't have to carry it with you. Stick your name on the spine with a Dymo label and carry a small notebook with you to record your times when you fly.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Ditto Mike. I also have the ATC one but don't always carry it with me. I usually put the times into my phone or jot them down on a piece of paper. I can then update my logbook when I get home. And when I do carry it with me it isn't that bulky or heavy anyway.

 

 

[stevenpam]

That's great, folks.

 

For some reason I had thought I needed to carry it with me. I guess that's only your Pilot Certificate. I have only just got my RA Ops Manual and have not yet read up on all of the record keeping requirements. (Nor have I yet had a good read of the AIP, CAOs, CAR/CASRs, etc)

 

I'll be interested to look into Windows Mobile options as I'll soon be getting a Windows Mobile device, but in actual fact I think there's a lot to be said for keeping it simple!

 

Of course it's a good idea to have some way of backing up, so it could either be a case of keeping parallel electronic and paper (book form) records, or just keep a traditional logbook and scan and securely store each page as it is completed.

 

Cheers,

 

Steven

 

 

[Guest douglish]

I dunno about RAA, but you will probably find that they are required to say the same as GA. When I trained GA thirty years ago my CFI stated that I MUST leave the log book at home, it was not to travel with me.

 

Then when you crash and burn, they can break into your home, and check the book for recency etc.

 

 

[stevenpam]

Then when you crash and burn, they can break into your home, and check the book for recency etc.

Now I never thought of that... that actually makes some sense.

 

 

[stevenpam]

Fancy (and free) Excel logbook

 

I just found this relatively fancy - for the price (free!), anyway - logbook tool in Excel.

 

You enter in the usual stuff and then there's a summary page that calculates hours by aeroplane (type), tail number, and a custom field; and shows a nice table of totals. It also displays a recency/currency table.

 

There are even some graphs of your flying activity.

 

Looks pretty handy!

 

...And of course it runs on Excel Mobile on Windows Mobile (or PocketPC I presume)... although of course screen size and stylus entry make it a bit cumbersome.

 

Anyway it's called the $5 Pilot Logbook by Greg Wilson and you can get it at cheappilot.com, where you enter your details and get sent a download link.

 

Cheers,

 

Steven

 

 

[Guest douglish]

Now that sounds top stuff. I actually bought (about 8 years ago) a similar program from Command Flight Planner, but at that time did not have THE time to enter all the stuff from previously so did not bother.

 

If you enter religiously in your program from the start, I think it would be great. Don't bother with the PDA stuff, unless going around Oz. After a weekend of flying, the pleasures are relived on Monday as you fill in the details in a more relaxed manner.

 

Do not forget the printed copy for home, ESPECIALLY if you're using a PDA/mobile that travels with you. Your "Official" log book can now be a loose leaf book with the printouts in slip-in sleeves, possibly with one page per month (yes even if NO FLIGHTS) with the facing page having photos of places you have bin or airplanes you admire.

 

Later you may realise that this is turning into such a great "Coffee Table" book you may shout it a leather cover that costs $30.00 (More than ATC's log book) and still feel that as a record of "My Flying Life" it is good value.

 

A small aside for those unaware of the history, The Department of Aviation (which used to look after aviators rather than try to criminalise them) used to produce it's own log book which I of course got used to. This ceased and my second book was the current ATC which is NOT as well laid out (after all it IS KIWI). The reason we ceased printing them? Australia with its small population was an uneconomic base to print such a great production for. So we buy the one private enterprise prints in NZ.

 

Here endeth the history lesson from the BOOK OF DOUG Ch 5 Vs 2

 

 

[stevenpam]

Hi Doug,

 

Good points all. Like with many things, it often doesn't makes sense to go for the cheapest. Most of us can probably remember lots of occasions where we regretted going for a cheap option - and far fewer where we regretted going for the "better" option.

 

Turning your logbook from an official/legal document into a treasured coffee table book/travelogue is a terrific idea. It might even be enough to inspire others who see it to give flying a go.

 

As for hardback paper-based logbooks... you mention that CASA don't sell one any more, but I noticed that Airservices Australia seem to sell one which they claim has had input from CASA: Airservices Australia Logbook. Not sure how similar this is to the one to which you refer.

 

Cheers,

 

Steven

 

 

[Guest douglish]

Ackshully, I said they no longer printed the Aussie one. They immediately started selling the Kiwi one, this was all back around the eighties and I wouldn't have a clue whether they claimed that at the time. Maybe, maybe not, I bought a Kiwi one about '98 and will never fill that so won't bother looking at 'notheryone.

 

Lish and I are now considering coffee table style anyway. My flying has slowed 'till the Yippyio is finished, THEN it will all be lower pressure stuff anyway.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Guest Caithness]

Mine's a CASA

 

Hi Steve,

 

As a new student 7 years ago I wasn't given an option for a logbook. I was just sold the CASA version, hard navy cover and lots of columns I'll never use, but I'm glad of the robustness. I've seen several soft cover versions around the school and they look dog-eared quite quickly. In the early years of my flying I did so little after my training year that one page was enough for 12 months and the log would have lasted me 35-40 years, if I'd last that long myself! Now that I'm instructing I'm only fitting one month to the page and I'm only part-time. The log will only last me 3 years at best. If you're like me I like to record special details of flights like weather, unusual conditions, wind strength, landings, go arounds, problems, special student achievements - all to savour in the years to come, a little like looking back over a photo album.

 

Some of the best log books are those historical ones from WW2 where entries are quite long, almost small essays. I guess the durability depends on how well you look after things, but as many here have said, you don't need to carry it everywhere you go (it's not a mandatory under CARs to carry the log on a flight) so it shouldn't get knocked about too much.

 

Software is fine for recording purposes, but I believe CASA still require a bound hard copy of the system printout to be produced as "the logbook".

 

There's been some good ideas here like the photo records to go with the written record, so maybe now you see how much variety there is. If you want it to last for posterity and hand it down to your grandkids I'd suggest a hard cover, leave it in your student file till you're licensed, then leave it home when you're off flying unless it's a long safari trip around the coast.

 

My 2 bobs worth!:thumb_up: