A plea for more personal responsibility

[Guest TOSGcentral]

This one is a bit awkward but comes from the heart so please read it dispassionately – just from a forum member.

 

 

I do not know why it has happened but over the last two or three weeks we have had a deterioration of the forums in terms of personal poster v’s poster issues.

 

 

This is most sad because these forums have been a happy place that so many have learned so much from and have been able to put in their own contributions. To a great extent the forums have been ‘self moderating’ via interchange between those who post. Something seems to have changed, but only in some quarters, and it is not good.

 

 

This is more so because the moderation on these forums has not been overt but quite ‘in the background’. Yet today two people have been suspended!

 

 

I think it grossly unfair on the moderators to force them to step in. We are all adults so why the vitriol that is emerging?

 

 

The ‘awkwardness’ is that I am probably the most vitriolic poster on these forums and I am sure that I get right up other people’s view points. But I put my case in terms that it can be responded to vis a vis the issue – and I will reply. I do not start a personal sniping session, nor do I indulge myself in ‘second guessing’ what another person has said , nor why they have said it.

 

 

May I suggest that we all just put our viewpoints and take care in how we express them; respond to the view points of others on what they have written; and not second guess any issues.

 

 

May we continue to have peace here, demonstrate that there is no need for moderation via our own conduct, and continue these forums as the great place that they are.

 

 

Aye

 

 

Tony

 

 

[facthunter]

Yes.

 

It is a shame really when things get personal. Red lights should flash in your head . You are not adding to the substance of this forum when you attack the writer in a PERSONAL way. We are all capable of judging the merit of what is posted. so a lot of it can go through to the keeper. Another facet of this is;

 

If a contributor has to be SO CAREFUL to make sure that his/her point wil not be taken wrongly, that it becomes a real chore, rather than the pleasure that communicating amongst like-interested people should be. We have discussed how things can be taken wrongly , when you are not aware of the body language or motives of the sender. Where you are not sure , give them the benefit of the doubt, read their post again or ask them to clarify. The only thing of real importance is if the matter has a safety aspect to it, and requires a quick response. Fella's, some of this has become a bit demeaning, I thought I was on Pprune this morning. If it is a put-down, don't put it down.(write it).. Nev..

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes, i have probably been guilty of this in the past. Its easy to overlook the fact that readers can't see your toung in your cheak when you post in text..(hey nev.;)Apploagies again)

 

Anyway..sorry to anyone else i may have offended..I am sarcastic bugga at times..

 

cheers

 

 

[facthunter]

Thanks.

 

That's fine merv, or is it andy? nev..

 

 

[motzartmerv]

yes mate..andy it is..merv is a nickname hangover from highschool..

 

cheers

 

 

[Yenn]

I enjoy the clashes of minds and love to do a bit of stirring, but we must keep it civil.

 

 

[farri]

Tolerance.

 

As I`ve tried to say before on other posts,the forum is basicly for debate and expression of opinions,with respect for others.

 

If,as adults we can`t agree to disagree, peacefully,then we have a bit to learn yet.

 

Frank.

 

Never Stop Learning.:thumb_up:

 

 

[ahlocks]

Maybe it's just me, but I perceive that some posters join the discussion just to exercise some chest thumping. Personally I don't care what kind of 'plane or car or house or licence they have or how many dead people they have seen. I'm more impressed with the content of the information and how the information can be of benefit to me or the group.

 

Many times I start a reply with the intent of having 'a spray' over an issue only to question myself as to whether I'm 'chest thumping' or actually adding beneficial content to the discussion - a lot get deleted before sending because I feel the chest thump to benefit ratio is skewed the wrong way.

 

I'm of two minds about this forum. It is good that it is civilised, but I do feel that the civility becomes artificial when threads are closed before a discussion has run its course and those with strong opinions are banned without the opportunity for rebuttal and vice versa. I’d dearly like to ‘have at‘ a couple of issues but my acceptance of the conditions of use precludes this – so be it.

 

I recognise that there are yet unknown demons out there waiting to bite me on the bum and I reckon this forum is where I'll discover what they are and how to avoid them. So if biting my tongue occassionaly is the cost of discussing this, it is a small price to pay.

 

All in all, I'm still facinated that by pulling back on the stick, half a ton of metal, fuel and bones lifts off the ground and the view becomes spectacular - amazing stuff!

 

Steven B.

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I'm of two minds about this forum. It is good that it is civilised, but I do feel that the civility becomes artificial when threads are closed before a discussion has run its course and those with strong opinions are banned without the opportunity for rebuttal and vice versa.

I am concerned at this perception. No-one has been banned for having strong opinions. Banning has only even been for being abusive, wilful commercial self-promotion, constant swearing, or not respecting other posters.

 

As for closing threads before the discussion has run its course, that has only happened where the discussion has deteriorated into slanging and we believe cannot be retrieved. How many of those discussions have resumed in other threads? I think they usually really have run their course.

 

This is a forum. Everyone should have a voice, not just those with thick skins. If the meek will inherit the earth, surely we should listen to what they (we) have to say?

 

If important information is lost because the source is afraid of being ridiculed, everyone is poorer and less informed.

 

As several have stated, we are adults in a civilized society. Ian and I should not have to be Kindergarten teachers keeping the sandpit clear of bullies.

 

Thanks for your post Tony. I think Farri summed it up well. Respect and peaceful disagreement.

 

Thanks for your support.

 

Ross

 

PS - I hate moderating, although it is thickening my skin.

 

PPS - maybe I'm just getting fat.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

PPS - maybe I'm just getting fat.

I would like to think we are just getting skinnier which makes you look fat. :)

 

 

[Captain]

I disagree ................... with the greatest of respect.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I disagree ................... with the greatest of respect.

Are you calling Slarti fat?

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Like I inferred in another post, we need an icon for 'tongue in cheek' Any takers?

 

 

[Kaz]

I know what it means... but what does it look like???

 

Is anyone else sitting there making silly faces trying to figure it out???

 

 

[ahlocks]

I know what it means... but what does it look like???Is anyone else sitting there making silly faces trying to figure it out???

Guilty

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I know what it means... but what does it look like???Is anyone else sitting there making silly faces trying to figure it out???

Like this?

 

 

 

 

[slartibartfast]

How about this one? [ATTACH]6092.vB[/ATTACH]

 

 

 

[farri]

Like I inferred in another post, we need an icon for 'tongue in cheek' Any takers?

Yep,I`m one.

 

 

[bilby54]

[quote=ahlocks;53016]

 

All in all, I'm still facinated that by pulling back on the stick, half a ton of metal, fuel and bones lifts off the ground and the view becomes spectacular - amazing stuff!

 

Steven B.

 

Youv'e just gotta love that description - yep, amazing stuff!

 

 

[farri]

Maybe it's just me, but I perceive that some posters join the discussion just to exercise some chest thumping. Personally I don't care what kind of 'plane or car or house or licence they have or how many dead people they have seen. I'm more impressed with the content of the information and how the information can be of benefit to me or the group.Steven B.

Steven,

 

Some of what you say is probably correct and we may all be guilty from time to time,however,some of us are genuinely trying to help others.

 

What is the content of information you wish to see and what benefit are you looking for because without spelling it out,how can anyone provide it.

 

And I also would like to ask, "Who is the group"?,as I understand it,this forum constists of many individuals,from student pilots to professional pilots so how could anyone cater to everyone.

 

Regards,

 

Frank.

 

 

[ahlocks]

I am concerned at this perception. No-one has been banned for having strong opinions. Banning has only even been for being abusive, wilful commercial self-promotion, constant swearing, or not respecting other posters.

OK, I’ll expand a bit and try to remain succinct.

 

“Strong opinions†was a euphemism for rude obnoxious pr…., umm, posters who state absolutes based on their perception of things. i.e. The GA v’s RAA protagonists. ‘He’s an accident looking for a place to happen’ judgmental snipes. Etc.

 

It appears that some of these clowns think it’s a sport to engage in petty brinksmanship or to roll a grenade into a conversation to see what happens. Well bugger ‘em! They deserve a burst of return fire when it fits. If they have been banned or the thread has been closed that doesn’t happen.

 

Ian and I should not have to be Kindergarten teachers keeping the sandpit clear of bullies.

[\quote]

 

No, you shouldn’t have to and that is my point.

 

Mate, I love the forum but I sometimes feel it’s like holding hands and singing kumbaya, when a smack in the face with a wet fish would be a more suitable approach.

 

May I suggest that if the thread has deteriorated to such an extent that it has become an off topic slanging match, that the offending posts are moved to a virtual sandbox and let them/us have at it. It appears that some of the issues will continue to resurface until at least some blood has been spilled. Or at the very least, posters re read and question their motives for making their post before hitting the submit button.

 

Cheers! And I hope I haven’t offended anyone…. unless you have “strong opinionsâ€.

 

Steven B

 

(standing by and awaiting wet fish)

[Admin]

May I suggest that if the thread has deteriorated to such an extent that it has become an off topic slanging match, that the offending posts are moved to a virtual sandbox and let them/us have at it. It appears that some of the issues will continue to resurface until at least some blood has been spilled. Or at the very least, posters re read and question their motives for making their post before hitting the submit button.Steven B

 

(standing by and awaiting wet fish)

The problem there is that as I found a few years ago that by doing this required posts that are quickly made after it to be edited or deleted as well - even if they are not a problem but may contain some reference to the now deleted post - in order for the thread to still flow and be understandable.

This creates work and I have, on occasions, received PMs saying that the point being made in the following post no longer made sense to the writer - more communication - more work. deleting a post also doesn't stop any one as all they do is post again with a complaint that they have been hard done by and with no one else seeing the post that was deleted makes the moderators look like a nasty lot of characters.

 

As you say "until at least some blood has been spilled" - banning a person IS spilling blood and the two people who have just been suspended (to the sin bin for a while) have been suspended before so these people are just not learning.

 

 

 

Damned if you do and damned if you don't - the end point is there is always Pprune and like it is often said about your RAAus Pilot Certificate:

 

Flying is a privilege not a right

 

The same goes for these forums! :big_grin: (said nicely)

 

 

 

So why don't we just have fun here, help each other and obey the rules of the sandpit - and go flying :thumb_up: - or have I missed the point of this great privately funded and managed resource that has been made free and available for all recreational pilots to enjoy ;)

 

 

 

[Guest extralite]

The moderation of this forum have made in an oasis of relative calm in contrast to thousands of other loosely moderated forums of various hobbies that start with a thread topic, 3 posts in becomes a battle between the usual suspects that goes for 5 pages of crap.

 

Because of the "non face to face" nature of a forum discussion, strict moderation makes people think twice before typing and its stays more civilized. Good job Ian.

 

 

[ahlocks]

..Damned if you do and damned if you don't - the end point is there is always Pprune... and like it is often said about your RAAus Pilot Certificate:Flying is a privilege not a right

 

The same goes for these forums! :big_grin: (said nicely)

 

 

Yeah, you and Ross are between a rock and a hard place without doubt.

 

Pprune! :ah_oh: Now there's an example of freedom of expression going too far the wrongway...

 

And of course your message was received nicely. What otherway could it be received?

 

Cheers!

 

 

[Yenn]

I have seen pprune and didn't like it, been here for a while and I do like it, so in my opinion we need to keep above the standards of pprune.