Security of Aircraft

[Guest The Bushman]

While driving to my local Rec Aircraft Strip It was noticed a gyro Parked just of the main Highway, on closer inspection it was noticed that it had been there all night as it was covered in Frost That was when I noticed that the Keys where in the ignigtion and on turning the keys Power was available

 

Now i know as a RAA pilot we are required to Secure our Aircraft when it is left unattended, and on speaking to the local Gyro Club was informed that it only need to be Secured if at a Airport WRONG"""

 

Now If some kids came allong and pushed the throttle full on and hit the key and in the process killed some bystander guess who would get the blame

 

Am waiting to see what the local club Does as I have photos and rego number

 

The Bushman:hittinghead:

 

 

[BLA82]

What a pathetic excuse

 

Bushman,

 

The guy who made the comment it is ony required at an airport needs to take a long hard look at himself.:hittinghead: What a joke. To think someone is willing to leave an aircraft un-attented with the keys in the ignition leeds me to think is he sensible enough to be aloud to fly at all. Unfortunately it's people like this that end up causing over regulation and inflating insurance costs for us all. I am just glad someone like you found it and not some teens looking for a bit of fun.

 

I would have taken the keys and sent them into the local Gyro club in the post. Might make him think next time.

 

Keep us posted on the outcome.

 

 

[ozzietriker]

this is totally unacceptable! people need to be held accountable for ridiculous negligence acts like this. The penalty for not fitting an approved anti theft device to an aircraft (GA, RAA & HGFA) is $5500 thumb_down

 

 

[Guest The Bushman]

futher to the earlier report we spoke to the HGFA and they have informed me that due to there aircrarft not having a ignigtion key they have no way to lock they aircraft, My Jab don,t have key but am required to lock the throttle

 

The bushmen:censored:

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

this is totally unacceptable! people need to be held accountable for ridiculous negligence acts like this. The penalty for not fitting an approved anti theft device to an aircraft (GA, RAA & HGFA) is $5500 thumb_down

I'll get the rope and we'll have a good ol fashion hanging party

 

you bring the beer.:thumb_up:

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Approved anti-theft device ??? :confused:

 

Can somebody show me the list of such devices for Airborne Trikes ???

 

Airborne trikes do have an ignition key. Also tend to lock the prop to the gearbox on occasions when I have to park it outside on an airfield.

 

Have heard the statement about approved anti-theft devices before. But until a list of approved devices is published I refuse to take it seriously and take what reasonable steps I can with what can be readily carried in the trike.

 

Cheers,

 

Glen

 

 

[ozzietriker]

Hi Gents I agree, however you all recieved a letter from the HGFA back in March 2004 (softcopy attached below) whereby we were instructed by the HGFA to comply with the rest of the other aviation disciplines in Australia and take the same security measures. Yes it may sound excessive however I am not wealthy enough to be kindly donating $5500 to the Aussie Government if the inspectors are in town and I don't have a lock on my aircraft. I have mine fitted at all times even when inside a hangar. Anti theft devices come in 3 different forms, nose wheel locks, throtle locks & propellor locks. I lock my prop to the gearbox also as suggested by the HGFA.

 

cheers

 

Dennis

 

New Security Regulations - Aviation Transport Security Act 2004

 

Owners of all powered aircraft are now required by law to take reasonable measures to deter the theft of their aircraft when they are unattended and assembled for flight. The areas of the Aviation Transport Security Act 2004 (the Act) and its supporting regulations which concern all powered aircraft (including sports aircraft) are those about the requirement to take reasonable measures to deter theft. This requirement applies when the aircraft is unattended and capable of flight. This measure could comprise locking it in a hangar (or garage, or shed) or fitting a locking device (bought or home-engineered). Pilots of ultra/microlight aircraft may use a length of thin steel cable (plastic-wrapped) around the controls and secured with a padlock. The standards for these cables and locks must comply with Australian Standard: AS 4145.4-2002 Locksets - Padlocks, with the highest grade practicable for the locking device chosen. Locking systems can cost as little as approximately $60. More information can be found at [http://www.dotars.gov.au/transsec/atsa/resources/Aircraft_Locking_Devices.doc]. You should also look at the relevant CASA AWB which is at [http://www.casa.gov.au/airworth/awb/02/008.htm].

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

This topic, amongst other security kneejerk rulings was discussed with the Americans at Airventure. needless to say they do not have this BS and they are laughing at us(you) for being stupid enough to allow beauocrats to high note themselves by bringing in these types of useless rules. want to know what they think of paying $200 for a asic card?

 

 

[Guest The Bushman]

I have not either heard of store brought Security locking deviece but like most Rec Pilots have made my own some are quite simple but leaving the keys in the aircraft is not one of them

 

the bushman

 

 

[youngmic]

I heard a lovely story when all these security issues came to pass.

 

Apparently a concerned aircraft owner contacted CASA or DOTARS and inquired about various agreeable methods of securing his aircraft. After a some amicable discussion the aircraft owner asked whether it would be considered suitable if his aircraft was imobilised by the removal of the starter motor. The response was that it would be considered secured in such a case.

 

The gentleman thanked him for his time and bid him good day, I think he still owns his Tiger Moth.:thumb_up:

 

 

[facthunter]

A good story

 

It is a good story, and like many of them, I would have a little doubt as to it's authenticity. (No slur intended on the provider of the yarn). The following is however true;

 

After the removal of the venerable DH 82 (aforementioned TIGER MOTH) from the approved list of "trainers". some new broom in DCA, (now CASA) decided that all tiger moths would have to be fitted with an electric audible stall warning. despite the fact that there is no electrical system at all fitted, communication between pilot and passenger/student is through gosport tubes to full leather/cloth headsets, and most importantly of all "the aircraft exhibits perfectly classical pre-stall buffet" so therefore did not require "artificial" warning. How would we survive without them... Nev

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

This topic, amongst other security kneejerk rulings was discussed with the Americans at Airventure. needless to say they do not have this BS and they are laughing at us(you) for being stupid enough to allow beauocrats to high note themselves by bringing in these types of useless rules. want to know what they think of paying $200 for a asic card?

I think we should be quite careful if we are suggesting that the Yanks have this right and we have it wrong.

The Yanks simply have a non-overlapping set of their own stupidities when it comes to their TSA - Transport Security Administration. These include but are not limited to seizing aging GA aircraft at US border crossings because their elderly instruments had their dials painted with radioactive paint and therefore triggered the TSA's scanning devices.

 

Both governments have engaged in massive stupidities in the name of "security" neither country has the right to laugh at the other - it's pot calling kettle black.

 

I don't mind things that demonstratively deliver safety/security and do so with appropriate benefit:cost but most of the rubbish engaged in by these governments (Australian and US) is simply mindless, knee jerk, crap. With real risks simply blithely ignored.

 

Next time I'll say what I really think:big_grin:

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Ben Longden]

speaking to the local Gyro Club was informed that it only need to be Secured if at a Airport WRONG"""Am waiting to see what the local club Does as I have photos and rego number

The Bushman:hittinghead:

Seeing as you have already let the club know of your concerns, I'd be letting the CASA safety Advisor know, so he can give the club the 'heads-up' with respect to the common sense behind the legislation BEFORE 1) they get a fine and 2) the accident waiting to happen.. happens.

 

Ben

 

 

[youngmic]

And on Radium dials, from Rick Durden, Avweb contributor.

 

http://www.avweb.com/news/pilotlounge/191377-1.html

 

I promise you that you will feel infuriated with bureaucracy after this, and I hope you all do. Never give up the fight.

 

 

[BigPete]

That story ties for equal 1st place (for infamy) with the obscene closure of Megs Field in the US of A. (See the DVD One Six Right (ClearProp Shop).

 

regards

 

 

[Flyer]

After just reading that story, I think we're stuffed.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

That story ties for equal 1st place (for infamy) with the obscene closure of Megs Field in the US of A. (See the DVD One Six Right (ClearProp Shop).regards

Quite so.

 

The most important part of this story is buried right in the middle with the ludicrous suggestion that these instruments could be used to create a weapon.

 

The impounding threats for a/c crossing the US borders are coming from TSA not from the EPA. This is about some mindless notion of "security" just as the ASIC reputedly is as well.

 

A world gone mad.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Skyhog]

Bushman,excuse me if I have missed something,but since when is it your business to enter somebody's property,snoop around and then fiddle with their aircraft(the key)?I'm not saying that the person in question was doing the right thing but if I ever found somebody on my place,uninvited,tampering with my aircraft,they would not be met in a very friendly way.

 

 

[BLA82]

Bushman,excuse me if I have missed something,but since when is it your business to enter somebody's property,snoop around and then fiddle with their aircraft(the key)?I'm not saying that the person in question was doing the right thing but if I ever found somebody on my place,uninvited,tampering with my aircraft,they would not be met in a very friendly way.

Skyhog,

 

I believe that Bushman said it was on the side of the road, so I don't think Bushman was as you say snooping around and any normal person who saw a giro parked next to a highway with no-one around would stop and look. I believe that your post was a bit far fetched from the topic don't ya think:laugh:

 

 

[Skyhog]

BLA82,Sorry if I misunderstood but I don't think I did.It says "just off the main highway",not "on the side of the road".I will eat my words and give a full appology to all concerned if The Bushman didn't cross a fenceline into private property to look at and touch the aircraft.Just another thought...did he also check the contents of the fuel tank and the servicability of the engine?The gyro may have been force landed there late in the previous day.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The actual realization of this instrument problem is that it is really Not an Aviation security issue. The source of the contamination just happens to be stored instruments. I am sure that they (the Californian STATE Govt) would have been just have heavy handed if it was a huge inventory of watches with glow in the dark dials.

 

It should also be noted that the californian EPA has an incredible history of stuffing up. They are most well known for the death of the plug in electric car about 20 years ago. (dvd 'who killed the elctric car" on sony label). Unfortunatly the Californian EPA did a similar trick to what CASA did here in OZ by convincing their respective govts that they should be a power unto themselves and able to create Laws and prosicute with no avenues of recourse for those who have been singled out for treatment.

 

It makes one shudder to think that one person or small group acting alone can and has over the years used their position to either futher their careers or seek revenge at others expense. Take this as a lesson and make sure that it does not happen here. It is important that state and federal security marches to the same drum and Deptments such as CASA, Airports federation, be overseen by at least a panel of people that will be affected by their security regulations.

 

It will be impossible to not have situations like what is going on at Chino. But if people stopped rolling over and accepting everything as gosple and questioned what they belive is wrong and undemocratic or just plane revenue hunting(asic cards) and learn to do it in mass then peckerheads would think twice before trying to note themselves in political history. The people run this country, unfortunatly most constituants do not realise this.

 

Bushman, just what sort of outcome do you wish to see happen from your actions.

 

Fine, jail. the end of the gyor club? Here is your tin badge :star:

 

Ozzie

 

 

[Guest Rocko]

What a load of bollocks!

 

BLA82,Sorry if I misunderstood but I don't think I did.It says "just off the main highway",not "on the side of the road".I will eat my words and give a full appology to all concerned if The Bushman didn't cross a fenceline into private property to look at and touch the aircraft.Just another thought...did he also check the contents of the fuel tank and the servicability of the engine?The gyro may have been force landed there late in the previous day.

Umm, does it in any way matter, whatsoever? Even slightly? If it's close enough to the road to be visible, it's close enough for someone...anyone...to get their hands on it. Especially kids. Cause I don't know what kids in your area are like, but any normal kid I've ever met would find such an object irresistable to "get a closer look at"

 

Besides, where does it say ANYWHERE that leaving an unsecured aircraft is OK if it's on your own property?

 

I'm reading all these posts, about general aircraft security, and it's all great and such. However, it's all got nothing to do with the topic as posted. Which was that some halfwit left a potentially functional aircraft in an unsecure place, where anyone could have reasonably accessed it.

 

Force landed or not. Inoperative or not. Private property or not. The gyro pilot is a bloody idiot. If it was a GA or RAA pilot, he'd be a bloody idiot. The aircraft wasn't secure. The keys were in the ignition and there was obviously noone overseeing the aircraft (since it seems clear some redneck with a shotgun obviously didn't try turning Bushie into a collander for" enterrin' his premesis without askin', like"!). Unless the starter was in some way totally disabled, it was bloody dangerous! And, whats the chance someone would totaly disable a starter, regardless if it was left there after a forced landing, AND still be thick enough to leave keys in a hot ignition? Puhleeez! Reality check, aisle 3!

 

You don't leave your keys in your car, do you? You don't leave your car unlocked, do you? You don't leave your keys in your car, unlocked, with the windows down, do you? Course not. Not even on your own property! Least, I hope you don't! There's been enough kids injured and property damaged over the years in that sort of situation to show how stupid it is.

 

So why would it be acceptable to leave your keys in your aircraft, without securing it, ANYWHERE! Jesus, you'd think it was rocket science or something! It's STUPID! STOOOOPID! Add as many "O"'s as you like....it's still STOOOOOOOPID!! ESPECIALLY given the knee-jerk atmosphere with aviation authorities nowadays.

 

Report him to the authorities, Bushie. Report his club too. Personally, I'm sick and tired of hearing about some idiot like this making an XXXX of the most basic rules, and screwing it up for all of us! If they are then able to legitimately explain their actions to the authorities, and make a justifiable excuse for what they did, let those in charge be the judge of them.

 

Scott

 

 

[Guest Rocko]

Although the whole thing does beg the question...who has an aircraft without a keyed ignition? How do you stop someone pressing a starter button, if there is no key to disable the ignition??

 

You can get a brand new lockable keyed switch, for less than $30. If you're a real tight-****, go to your local auto wrecker, and get one there, cheap. If the HGFA, RAA, or anyone else says that due to their aircraft not having a ignition key they have no way to lock their aircraft, I'd be seeing if they were "puffing the herb"!

 

My ride on LAWN MOWER has a key in it! Heck, even my PC case has a key in it, to stop unwanted entry.

 

Retro fitting a key into anything isn't exactly difficult. If you're flying an aircraft without one, spend the 1/2 hour it'd take, and get one fitted.

 

 

[Skyhog]

Rocko,I said in my first post that the gyro bloke wasn't doing the right thing.As for any kid that you've ever met not being able to resist touching things they shouldn't...a bit of discipline goes a long way.Now,the shotgun remark,that's just stupid!Finally,yes we live in a remote area and leave keys in all our vehicles all the time and the kids don't go near them,that is what have been taught.Unlike a lot of kids these days,ours do as they are told...a bit of discipline goes a long way!

 

 

[BLA82]

Rocko,I said in my first post that the gyro bloke wasn't doing the right thing.As for any kid that you've ever met not being able to resist touching things they shouldn't...a bit of discipline goes a long way.Now,the shotgun remark,that's just stupid!Finally,yes we live in a remote area and leave keys in all our vehicles all the time and the kids don't go near them,that is what have been taught.Unlike a lot of kids these days,ours do as they are told...a bit of discipline goes a long way!

Skyhog,

 

I to grew up in a remote area and keys were left in an ignition. I to was disaplined but if you believe your kids do everything you say, as said before "reality check". I am sure you as a kid did things when your parents weren't around. Regardless if kids are disaplined or not you should always expect the worse. Your angels might do what they are told but the three kids down the road won't. I agree with the other post totally. Report the total:censored: to the authorities, report his club and report the braindead fool from the club that made the "only at an airport comment" I am sure skyhog you would be the first to complain when insurances go up and laws become tighter. Next time they do thank the tools like the giro pilot for that. And just remember it only takes one mistake to change a whole life