Security gone mad

[Guest airsick]

I know for a fact that the Warren Truss and Anthony Albanese addresses are correct as I have sent email to them and received replies. I haven't tried the Rudd address but it is less important anyway.

 

Could it be a problem at your end? (Not pointing the finger, just asking :))

 

 

[icebob]

Hi,

 

Yes unfortunately it was a problem my end with my firewall seeing those addresses as "inappropriate/dangerous":hittinghead: How did my firewall get so smart?????;)

 

It is now fixed, still can not get through to the PM, like you said less important.

 

Bob.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Hi,Yes unfortunately it was a problem my end with my firewall seeing those addresses as "inappropriate/dangerous":hittinghead: How did my firewall get so smart?????;)

It is now fixed, still can not get through to the PM, like you said less important.

 

Bob.

Oh the irony. Your computer thinks the government is a security threat.

 

 

[tvaner]

His computer is probably right.

 

A threat to our freedoms.:ah_oh:

 

 

[Guest airsick]

To those of you who wrote a letter and/or forwarded the email thank you for your efforts. For those of you that haven’t I hope your silence doesn’t speak louder than our words. The apathy of flyers is well known but this issue will affect us all. Some of us will have the right to complain given that we made some sort of effort to be heard and make a statement. For the others it isn’t too late. Write the letter, forward the email, this issue isn’t going to just go away with no effort on our part.

 

SHOUT LOUDLY!!!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

BLAH BLAH BLAH

 

ROUND TWO COMING UP!!

 

pretty typical response from a pollie

 

Good morning,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As the Transport Security Co-Ordination Centre's remit is to respond to security incidents, we forwarded your email to our Policy department for a response. Their advice is as follows:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Australian Government has introduced enhanced airside inspection measures at the 11 designated airports in Australia, including CANBERRA AIRPORT. These enhanced airside inspection measures have required airport operators to introduce additional requirements, such as the inspection of a person and their possessions, the inspection of vehicles and the inspection of goods entering that that part of the airside area immeaditely surrouding aircraft operating a screened airser.vice

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The airport operator may decide to introduce measures above and beyond the minimum requirements.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Canberra Airport’s policies and procedures, in relation to access control, are compliant with current legislation and departmental requirements. Canberra Airport can provide further details regarding the enhanced inspection area and the requirements that apply to general aviation users.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Regards

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Duty Supervisor

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Co-Ordination Centre, Office of Transport Security,

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

 

 

 

 



Australian Government

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

COMMENTS PLEASE .

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Department of Infrastructure, Transport, Regional Development and Local Government,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I have had the same response, maybe it is time for a physical protest. Maybe we can all fly to Canberra, taxi onto the runway and get a flat tyre? Accidentally leave your master switch on and hang a hat on your push to talk so no aircraft can get a clearance? I am trying to think of a way that is legal, won't cause any safety issues but will disrupt things to the point that someone pays attention.

 

This whole thing just gives me the

 

Or am I just getting too emotional now?

 

Ideas are welcome...

 

 

[Steve Donald]

hec i do all that while flying a plane, i am buggered now and i cant afford an atsic card i am doomed for the firing squad i think

 

 

[Guest The Bushman]

Letter to state member

 

Sent a copy of your letter to my state member with some name changes this is the reply

 

Maybe we should all do it

 

The bushman:hittinghead::hittinghead::hittinghead:

 

From: "Ley, Sussan (MP)" <[email protected]>

 

To: "James <

 

Cc: "Brown, Debbie (S. Ley, MP)" <[email protected]>; "Howard, Jenny (S. Ley, MP)" <[email protected]>

 

Subject: RE: ASIC Cards

 

Date: Monday, 15 September 2008 5:46 PM

 

Dear James

 

Thank you fro your letter - most interesting. I cannot but agree with

 

you; the notion of 'security' is becoming highly confused in the minds

 

of bureaucrats I fear!

 

As you may know I am a pilot myself and have flown into various small

 

regional airports, only to be confronted by silly fences, silly signs

 

and no-one to care whether I am wearing an ASIC or not. They have taken

 

things a step further in Canberra. The ASIC is meaningless, you don't

 

get a code for the gates and everyone has to be let in and out (of the

 

GA area) by a security guard. So it's a bit of a circus to say the

 

least.

 

I shall make representations on your behalf to the Minister for

 

Transport.

 

Kind Regards

 

Sussan

 

-----Original Message-----

 

Sent: Friday, 29 August 2008 5:12 PM

 

To: Ley, Sussan (MP)

 

Subject: ASIC Cards

 

Mss Ley Attached a letter for your information

 

Broken Hill

 

2880

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Here is the reply i recieved from Peter Garrett's secretary,

 

more 'blah blah blah' but hey at least the Minister is going to receive multiple complaints coming from across the country from our MP's so at least it may ring a few bells in his head that this is a national problem. please post your replies from the pollies.

 

maybe we should start a poll on who participated in this and let us start to plan a more intensive campain.

 

what does Sussan Ley fly GA or REC? maybe one of you locals should take her for a fly in a REC aircraft if she hasn't flown one yet. Be good to have a Minister or two in the ranks. Good to know that Sussan has the same views as us.

 

 

This is to acknowledge receipt of your email …”state of Australia’s airports”.

 

 

Mr Garrett has made representations on your behalf to the Minister for Transport the Hon Anthony Albanese MP and you will receive a response in due course.

 

 

Yours sincerely

 

 

 

 

Sandi Chick

 

Office of the Hon Peter Garrett AM

 

Federal Member for Kingsford Smith

 

Minister for the Environment, Heritage & the Arts

 

P 61 2 9349 6007

 

F 61 2 9349 8089

 

E [email protected]

 

W petergarrett.com.au

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Susan Ley is a rarity when it comes to pollies.. she speaks the truth.

 

When she was first elected, she used her own 172 to do the rounds of her electorate, which is bloody huge.. about half the size of NSW at the time, I recall.

 

Sharman Stone (Lib) at Shepparton is another to get in touch with, as she charters a plane to get her to and from Canberra - and she wont like being told to wait half an hour for a security nazi to escort her from the plane.

 

Ben

 

 

[Bob1957]

Just droped in.

 

I know this might sound to simple, but why do Pilots have to have asics and avids etc anyway? I mean to say wouldnt having a Pilots Licence be enough checks etc anyway? I mean what a croc of s h i .... I got an Avid a couple of yrs ago ehinking that would suffice as it was cheaper and lasts 5yrs but oh no they say I have to have an Asic?wouldnt be it costs more and only lasts 2yrs? Im certain that the terrorist that did some flying training in 911 would only have had a student licence anyway so come on full Pilots licence should be proof enough that we are good guys eh?

 

 

[Ben Longden]

THAT is the question that Canberra airport leasees need to answer.

 

Ben

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The only people who need to apply for a asic type card should be those who work airside at commercial airports. pilots and aircrew should only have to have their license with them. it would be simple enough to have the information you provide with the application or renewal of a air crew license used in a security check and it should not cost any extra. If the cops can check your entire life history whilst you are waiting for the traffic lights change, then i can't see why it cost so much and takes so long for the feds to do the same. maybe we can ask for a cost breakdown on an asic card and where the monies actually go and what do they fund.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I don't have a problem with the basic premise of an ASIC - if it worked that is. At the moment I have an ASIC which says I am a trust worthy person and am allowed airside unescorted. But I still have to be let in and checked by a security guard.

 

Furthermore this security guard has had the same level of scrutiny applied as me so what makes him any less likely to be a terrorist? Maybe he is shonky and is letting in people without an ASIC?

 

The whole security thing is completely flawed and the incident at Brisbane (I think it was there) the other day highlights this. Someone got through the screening point without being screened. Security realised their error and evacuated the entire airport and re-screened everyone. This raises a number of questions.

 

Firstly, at what point did they realise they had missed someone? If you saw someone slip by why don't you just grab them on the spot and screen them? If it was sometime after the event then how did they pick it up? Why did they get missed in the first place?

 

Secondly, did they scour the entire airport for contraband after the evacuation? What is to stop the person who wasn't screened from dumping their gear in a corner somewhere, going back outside, lining up to get screened and then simply picking up their bomb, weapon, etc. that they had stashed earlier?

 

If the threat was real and the security was truly effective then all it does it shift the terrorism and crime focus to soft targets such as bus depots, train stations, sporting events, etc. If the security is ineffective then it does nothing to address the threat. Given the farcical measures currently in place and the fact that there have been no terrorist attacks it sort of suggests to me there is no real threat. Even if there was one, a chicken wire fence around an airport perimeter isn't going to address it.

 

 

[BigPete]

But that's the problem, airsick. Because there's been no terrorist :devil: attacks all the security people and polliticians can claim their measures work.

 

regards

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Sooooo,

 

If I fly to Cant-berra and invoice the airport lessees for one hour do you think they would take notice?

 

But what.. if I called the firm Al Kyder, and signed it Terry Wrist.... ;)

 

Ben

 

*Think about it... and say the names out loud..*

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

you can invoice them (don't forget to include GST), then when they don't pay you can send them a reminder then you can send a demand to pay then you can take them to the court then their credit rating goes west. even if they don't eventually pay up you will gain good media coverage. i am sure that you could organise that. if everyone who used the airport did this EVERY time they were forced to wait then the time wasted by their accounts people shuffeling this around and dealing with the Sherriff when he comes a knocking may just make them revaluate their access rules.

 

If he (snow 0is using a seperate security company then duplicate the invoice to them as well.

 

I charge out my time at $125 an hour

 

stick it up em

 

Ozzie

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Well today i received a reply from the Dept of Infrastructure,Transport, Regional Development and Local Govt., regarding the ASIC card situation and the Canberra Airport access situation.

 

Some of the things explained is that the ASIC does not confer the holder a right of access to any area of the airport. that remains the at the discretion of the airport operator. All the ASIC does is provide security with a nationally consistant form of evidence that the holder has met the govt's background checking requirerments.

 

(you can still be refused entry and access to your aircraft by the operator)

 

It is important to note that the legislation is not solely designed as a tool against terrorism, but has also been designed to mitigate against the risk of unlawfull interference with aviation. ( so how did an ex cop steal a helicopter). the ASIC is designed to identify those with a history of politically motivated violence and or a criminal record that may cause concerns.

 

The dept is currently reviewing the ASIC regime. The review is considering the future direction of the ASIC regime and seeks to address issues raised by the industry. During the review the Dept is consulting widely with the aviation industry, including the largest representing body, AOPA. (are the RAAus making themselves known to this review?)

 

The Office of Transport Security is also continuing to work with CASA to examine the options to futher align the processes involved with the attainment of an ASIC and a photographic pilot licence. (RAAus certificates included with this?)

 

My view on Canberra Airport will be taken into account in the review.

 

signed scribble scribble for Stuart Sargent

 

GM Aviation Security Policy and Legislation, Office of Transport Security 5/11/08

 

I feel a lot more secure now:loopy:

 

Now maybe we should start writing to the dept of Infrastructure, transport and regional development and Local Govenment and have a good whinge about Goulburn

 

comments on the above reply??

 

Ozzie

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

A little off track here but in the same vein, about 12 months after 9/11 flew a cirrus over the top of LAX at 3,500ft without a flight plan, without ASIC or equivalent just following the prescribed procedures with transponder and radio..getting clearances as required and interestingly at 3,500ft above LAX you are OCTA!!i_dunno

 

 

[Gibbo]

Interesting reading in the Asic Application - slightly off topic

 

Waiting for the flames to start!

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

 

 



"I. The ASIC is to be prominently displayed on the outer clothing in the chest area at all times while within a

 

 

 

 

 

Security Restricted Area of an Australian airport."

 

 

Based on the above quote from the ASIC appllication form, An Asic card is not required outside of the Security Restricted area of the airport. This therefore means as long as I dont walk across the double yellow lines marking the area on the termac and stay on the GA side I can not be charged or be required to wear the ASIC. (see below)

 

Mt Isa airport therefore does not require an ASIC if I stay on the GA or non-strile side of the terminal. This is clearly marked on the tarmac area just past the BP refueling bowser facing the RPT terminal.

 

"XIII. The ASIC may only be used in the course of the holder’s approved duties in the Security Restricted Area or

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sterile Area. It does not constitute an authority to enter or remain in restricted areas for any other purpose."

 

 

As I have no 'approved' duties as a pilot of a RAA aircraft in a strile area I have no right to enter the strile area and therefore must not be wearing the ASIC card while outside of the security area.

 

 

:im with stupid:wearing a ASIC card in a area of the airport where I am not allowed to.

 

 

 

Gibbo

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The airport operator can if they so wish over ride any minimum ASIC requierments and install additional (not less) security measures. IE. If they so wish they can insist on the pilots and crew of all aircraft to obtain and display an ASIC on all areas of the airport.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[Gibbo]

I am just pointing out a few inconsistancies in the system.

 

Mount Isa, Cloncurry and several other western Queensland airstrips have signage that conflicts with the conditions of use that are imposed on us. I can also name a couple in SA that have the same situation.

 

For example, Mount Isa has a notice on gate stating that the ASIC must be displayed at all times but the tarmac has 'sterile area' delimitation markings on the tarmac and therefore if you follow the instructions and use the ASIC in the GA area you are breaching the conditions of use that are set out by the governing body as it is being used in a non-strile area.

 

Damned if you do and damned if you dont. You can loose your ASIC card for following a 'lawfall instruction (the sign)'.

 

The concept of the ASIC card is commendable but the execution leaves a lot to be desired.

 

The system needs to be broken down in layers and real secutity ratings applied. Adeilade seperates all incoming regional flights from the big boys. Differant levels for differant situations.

 

RPT operations should occur in a seperate 'sterile' areas away from non-RPT -GA operations, RED ASIC card for the RPT area (when in operation) and a Green card / AVID / photo licence for the GA area. There is no need to be hanging around the 737 when I am meant to be playing with my own aircraft.

 

Layed security is the only workable option but examples of situations such as declaring VRD (dirt strip, 400k SW of katherine) only shows the stupidity of the system as the largest aircraft that can use it is a small twin. I wouldn't park a 210 under the wing of a 747. Common sense.

 

Remember that a person only needs to be under the direct supervision of a ASIC holder to be in the area. It is technically possible that you can fly in and out of major airports by prearranging the 'supervision'. I've been laughed at by a couple of refuelers when I called them to arrange fuel access but it complies with the sprit of the system and the rules.

 

I have worked under those 'supervision' circumstances in the international terminal area at Melbourne airport.

 

Gibbo

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Gibbo,

 

As the system is under review i suggest that you write to the Minister and forward your views. I assume the the RAAus will also be consulted as being part of the "industry" so a letter to them would also be appropriate.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[wags]

ASIC debacle

 

Someone in this thread mentioned an article in the Sydney Morning Herald on 27th August 2008 titled "The terrifying cost of feeling safer". Does anyone have a copy of this article they can forward to me?

 

I don't mind paying $2.20 to Fairfax to get the article out of their archives, but I refuse to provide all the info they want on me to access the article.

 

Wags.