Security gone mad

[bushpilot]

Another example of how silly the security measures are:

 

The Council ran airfields generally have the access gate codes for the gate combination lock to be written on the inside of the gate - so that visiting pilots can note the code on their way out.. But a friend of mine arrived at Mudgee and forgot to note down the code... No problem - when he got back later, he just reached through the handle opening with his camera-phone, took a pic of the back of the plate - and presto, he has the code... (But I guess the 'terrorists' wont think of these things.. :-)

 

 

[Mick]

An interesting example of how effective all our expensive airport security measures really are.........

 

Maryborough Qld Aero Club that is located airside, yes inside that all terrorist

 

stopping and oh so expensive fence, was broken into last night.:ah_oh:

 

Attending Police believe most likely it was KIDS!!!!!:confused::confused:

 

Thankfully nothing was actually taken, we suspect that once they gained entry by smashing a window, reaching through and opening a door, that the alarm has gone off and they have done the bolt.

 

Good thing we were not depending on that $850,000 anti-terrorist fence to protect the club house.:hittinghead::hittinghead:

 

 

[Ewen McPhee]

It leaves me wondering about how the Bikers managed to kill someone in the middle of Sydney Airport. From the pictures it appears that the event occurred on the check-in concourse which would have been less than 50 meters from the Security check-in point. While I am not intending to have a go at anyone, is there any information on how these People got away with murder (Literally) in the middle of one of our biggest airports?

 

 

[winsor68]

The very real problem is the there is still some threat to the general public and the government has done nothing....NOTHING...to fix this. I had hoped that with the change of government last year that the bullXXXX we had been fed would stop but it seems that it hasn't....

 

Besides inconveniencing honest people...THERE IS NO SECUIRITY AT AIRPORTS.

 

 

[Gibbo]

Finally found a use for my ASIC card today. Waved the ASIC card in the car park at a certain Central Queensland airport (with lots of miners going away for Easter) and managed to get away without paying.

 

Now how to figure out how to get the other $158 dollars back that I paid for the card.

 

Gibbo

 

 

[winsor68]

There is one cool thing about having an ASIC and working at an airport...

 

The Qld Police Beech 1900 flies into the port where I work regularly, bringing in/out prisoners and police officers...I once saw a couple of obviously plain clothes cops lounging on our conveyors waiting for Con-Air which had just landed and was taxying in...according to the rules we are to challenge anyone not displaying an ASIC (except Army personnel)...so I took great pleasure in pulling the cops up and hassling them and insisting on seeing there ID...believe me they were not impressed but there was not a thing they could do about it...we all got a good laugh out of that...Must say I was glad they were leaving town, not arriving...

 

Also a new guy we had working with us who recently immigrated from Britian pulled Premier Anna Bligh and her entourage up and tried to escort them off the premises...had no idea who she was but was doing the right thing according to ASIC rules...Government Ministers regularly flaunt the rules in regards to ASIC use.

 

 

[Gibbo]

I was speaking to a 'informed' source that works for the owner of the above mentioned airport while waiting for the weather to clear this morning.

 

The airports automated gate system has never worked since installation, Not a single camera (out of 10) is servicable and the keypad gates are regularly left unlocked as the gates themselves jam.

 

This airport hosts at least 20 RPT and charter flights per day. Where the hell are our tax payers dollars going.

 

Is it true that the 'security' computer terminal at Bundy has never worked as well?

 

For the record the 'airport managers' postion is vacant at this airportand they can't get a qualifed person to run the place. Good job if you want to play with planes and get cheap hanagerage.

 

 

[winsor68]

I like the idea of an email bomb. It is simple, relatively harmless, legal and should get some attention..

Just don't use the word bomb...you might get in trouble...lol

 

 

[winsor68]

One thing that you should all do if you use an airport with a gate code is to make sure you carry a TEXTA with you. Write the code on every gate that you have to pass through. That might save some angst for others following.At YLTV we have a fence less than half way around the airport land and no locks on the gates, or we didn't the last time I was there.

 

David

And be very, very careful if you choose to do this...you may face massive fines and imprisonment...

 

 

[winsor68]

If you've got the papers proving that you've got an ASIC coming, shouldn't that help you out a bit?Just like when your registering a car and waiting for the plates to turn up... you carry around your rego papers in that period...but you can still drive it on the road...

 

Not sure if it's the same with an ASIC but it wouldn't hurt ringing up CASA and finding out...

 

Just my 2cents worth... (Oh, Yeah... forgot to add GST, 2.2cents...)

If your paperwork is in you can legally operate under supervision while wearing a visitor card for 3 months...but you would probably not be able to find anyone to issue you with one unless you are at your home airport.

 

 

[Yenn]

Don't blame the politicians. They are only allowed to do so much, and then the beaurocrats take over. If it is done in the name of terrorism or safety the pollies don't get a say.

 

 

[turboplanner]

There is some very specic information in some of these posts about lax security.

 

Just bear in mind that Victoria has tried, convicted, and locked up at least 15 genuine terrorists. hasn't made the headline but they are there in Port Phillip prison.

 

And, this is the most frightening part, their associates haven't been caught yet, so be careful about pointing out weaknesses in your airport security - you could be one of the injured.

 

 

[Gibbo]

NSW is also not immune from the issue with several awaiting trial if my memory serves me correctly.

 

I have no problem with the fact we need to keep a good eye out for this behavior but ineffective and misdirected security needs to be fixed. I am happy to wear some ID and be subject to checks but the government depts that are responsable for it need a wake up before something actually occurs. The appearance of security is only there for the political point scoring.

 

General Aviation would be a medium risk due to the limited aspect but some of the more day to day public situations would have to be classifed as severe and warrant more investagation.

 

 

[winsor68]

There is some very specic information in some of these posts about lax security.Just bear in mind that Victoria has tried, convicted, and locked up at least 15 genuine terrorists. hasn't made the headline but they are there in Port Phillip prison.

 

And, this is the most frightening part, their associates haven't been caught yet, so be careful about pointing out weaknesses in your airport security - you could be one of the injured.

And I would be willing to bet anything that airport security had nothing to do with these people being caught...that is the whole point...it is good that they are catching these people but they should not be telling us they have put security in place for our own protection when those of us who work in these environs everyday know this to be a joke.

 

And maybe if Mr Average Joe public knows they will kick up a stink and insist on it being fixed...because those who we pay OUR tax money to for the job have failed.

 

 

[Guest Orion]

Hey Guys

 

I'm with Turboplanner here.

 

Everyone needs to stop discussing specifics of lax security in this public forum.

 

If you have concerns report them to the Authorities.

 

Open forums just like these are one of the very obvious sources of intelligence for those wishing to do harm.

 

I'm astounded that this is not obvious to all.

 

Sure the ASIC and other measures may not be the best, personally i'm no sure what to think but i know i'm willing to put up with some intrusion and inconvienience if it will help in keeping us a bit safe.

 

Lets instead refocus the discussion onto suggestions on how to effectively secure our aviation facilities.

 

I understand only too well about the little hitler types wearing a security uniform. Not long after the xmas after the 9/11 incident we were travelling back from TAS to Coffs Harbour. My wifewho is an Australian Born Chinese was pulled aside and given the one on one sercuity check three times during that trip and we only passed through security three times so its a 100% strike rate . Statistically nearly impossible if these checks are ramdom. However we know they are not. In fact i've kept track and she gets checked about 85# of the time we travel by air.

 

Not very nice but we put up with it for the good of the cause. If one of the little hitler types gets it right one time only and foils an act of terrorism then the inconviennece to the rest of us is worth it.

 

Of course i'd like them to be better trained and equiped.

 

Cheers

 

Kent

 

 

[winsor68]

Sorry...I am not with Turbo or Orion on this...I think our government already knows about it...and honestly us talking about it on the forums is not going to change the fact that terrorism may exist...You guys are pulling the usual old "the terrorists must be stupid" routine...they aren't and if they were interested in our airports anything we have posted up here is not going to make a bit of difference. Any terrorist does not need to read our posts to know what is going on...and the posts will make no difference.

 

This is not the US...and to me saying don't even talk about it is just about on a par with the disagree and you're being "unpatriotic" line.

 

Although I will say that some of the posts such as suggesting writing the security codes on gates etc are not real smart. The fact is these measures are in place and if you don't follow the rules you may have the authorities down on your heads like a ton of bricks is true.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Winsor68: You're halfway there recognizing that writing security codes on gates is not real smart. Publishing information, right or wrong that Mackay is an easy mark could also get you into trouble.

 

No one is suggesting terrorists are stupid; it is strategically smart to save months of planning by using readily available Intelligence as Orion says, particularly from someone who indicates he works there, and so gives it credence.

 

I'm reading a book by Richard Helms on his time with the OSS (which grew into the CIA) during WW2, and the allies gained a massive advantage early on in the war by listening in on the gossip of signallers as they transmitted thousands of messages per day spending a bit of time after each message to commiserate on what a hopeless lot the nazis were and why the latest plan wouldn't work. Saved them dropping spies into Germany, walking through the snow.

 

Orion: This must be frustrating for your wife, given that we haven't really seen any Chinese terrorists. Hopefully the latest methods will reduce that.

 

 

[winsor68]

Mackay is not an "easy mark"...Australia is an "easy mark"...and again by telling people not to voice their concerns puts us in to the same boat as the countries this whole supposed war on/of terror is supposed to be saving us from...

 

The security at our airports is exactly as proposed by government departments and as checked by Dotars...it is just that anyone not trying to serve their own interests can see that someone has taken the complete mickey on this...and it does not take months to plan on buying a set of bolt cutters or to walk through a boarding gate when there is no one prepared to stop anyone...I think the real danger is that when our governments are playing games there are people such as yourself who will say "don't mention it because you may get in trouble"...but then we do live in a formerly free country where now you can be locked up without reason or recourse in the name of national security...another complete load of bollocks in my opinion.

 

 

[kevinfrost]

I'm with you Winsor

 

 

[winsor68]

This may be a bit of topic here but here is an interesting quote...gives a good reason why we should be questioning this whole charade...

 

"Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY."

 

--Goering at the Nuremberg Trials

 

 

[Guest Orion]

Windsor 68 and others

 

neither i nor i think Turboplanner is trying to stiffle debate or discussion.

 

Far from it.

 

Open discussion of the issues hopefully will lead to better outcomes. Questioning is a good thing.

 

My problem is specifics. If there are specific shortcomings anyone is aware of then an open forum is not the place to discuss them. Write letters, call authorities but please don't post the specifics out in the open. Its akin to passing the amunition to the people shooting at you. How do you think information is gathered or are you naive enough to beleive that only the good guys visit our site.

 

I don't hold to the "patriotic line", the old if you are not with us your not a patriot mindset. But ! This is our mess and the only way out is if we all work together to get out.

 

No good is acheived by blaming others and pointing the finger.

 

If anyone has a workable solution to the security issue i'd love to hear it.

 

Cheers

 

Kent

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes, that was the issue I was concerned about.

 

In fact, apart from giving ammunition to people, broadcasting specifics is the old Loose Lips Sink Ships and you could find yourself out of a job and charged.

 

There are addresses at the beginning of this thread if you have specific information on any weak links, and as Orion said that's the way to do it.

 

The large number of genuine terrorists locked up (ie those who intended to kill high volumes of Australians) is an indicator that the net is working, but the reason for the fridge magnet exercise is to get any suspicions in fast.

 

 

[Yenn]

Surely one of the security problems we have is the fact that the ASIC has got us all off side. The idea is good and I don't begrudge the authorities trying to beef up security, but have a look at the requirements of an ASIC.

 

If an ASIC holder is convicted of a crime he has to tell the authorities. What chance is there of that happening if he is a terrorist.

 

When we have to renew our ASIC, we have to go through the whole palaver again. Why can't we just send in the money and let them reissue, they have all our particulars?

 

How does an ASIC work? I would have thought that once you had an ASIC, bells would ring as soon as your name cropped up in any court, or even police investigation.

 

As far as I can see airport security is a case of being seen to be doing something, rather than actually doing something. The politicians have no control over what happens, they are told what to do by the beaurocrats and then ignored.

 

 

[Guest Orion]

Hi Ian

 

Yep some of the ASIC questions don't seem to make sense ie. the tell us if you have a criminal conviction.

 

Similar vein when i used to coach my kids soccer teams they had a child protection questionaire. one of the questions was " have you ever been convicted of a crime against a child" As if you would answer that in the affirmative if you had.

 

However whats the alternative ask nothing ? as i understand it the ASIC involves a police check, given the other personal info we disclose any criminal conviction will show up. So maybe the question is more an honesty testing thing, i mean if you are not prepared to disclose what they already know there may be other issues.

 

Part of the whole security thing is visibility, its what we don't see that i'm interested in making sure is there.

 

You would think that the Mascot thing with the bikies would be raising serious questions of response times and issues, its not really the fact that the incident occurred as much as the fact it wasn't shut down quickly.

 

More questions ?

 

Cheers

 

Kent