Security gone mad

[Student Pilot]

It is important to note that the legislation is not solely designed as a tool against terrorism, but has also been designed to mitigate against the risk of unlawfull interference with aviation. ( so how did an ex cop steal a helicopter). the ASIC is designed to identify those with a history of politically motivated violence and or a criminal record that may cause concerns

There are already laws that cover this if used.

A year or two back I recieved a bullet hole in my Aircraft while working in country NSW. I rang the Police, they weren't interested, they said

 

"What do you want me to do, go around and ask everybody if they shot at you? There are guns everywhere out there, somebody proberbly just had a shot at a rabbit'" One month later I was contacted by a detective who said it was too late to do anything. The bloke who I thought shot at me was on drug and illegale firearm charges at the time, when they came up he got off, apparently they were his girlfriends guns, don't know what happened to the drug charges but he's still out and about.

 

Before I took the Aircraft in for a sevice I contacted CASA, if I didn't report it there are possible charges for me. The only response I got from the was "Yeah, we used to get that all the time in Vietnam".

 

The law is a waste of time and space, CASA as well. The only thing I can do practicly is to watch out next time I'm out that way. Don't expect any response from Airport authorities, they do what they want, when they want to and nobody can stop them, look at Bankstown.:black_eye:

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

This whole ASIC thing has be stuffed. I work at Perth Airport on the GA side. The aircraft I work in kinda sticks out. Big red and white thing, has "RESCUE" all over it. We wear particular flight suits and have our ASIC showing at all times as well.

 

What gets me is the security guards in the safety car at YPPH are always on our backs about who we bring to OUR aircraft. If we have WA Police, SES, state and federal Govt officials with us and we're showing them the aircraft or briefing them before we take them flying, guarenteed the Safety car will be along and the security guard will give us a mouthful about how we're not allowed just show anyone our aircraft. I've even had one guard tell me "I can't bring my friends to the airport to see where I work".

 

So is this "security" or just someone wanting to be a thorn in my a**?

 

At the end of the day, we're all in aviation and we're all going to be keeping an eye out for people who look out of the ordinary. I honestly believe that the ASIC is a waste of time and that security is everyone's business so maybe the business or school can be responsible for those working for them.

 

I also believe that the ASIC card is an excuse for the government to make some extra cash.

 

But that's just my 2c

 

 

[Ewen McPhee]

Over the Top Security.

 

I recall a local story that happened recently, not sure if embellished in the telling, of a freelance sheet metal worker oing some work for the local LAME's. He wasn't wearing his ASIC while working on aircraft in the LAME's shed; which is "air side" of course.

 

The Local Council authority entered the Hangar and asked him to produce it; a few choice words were said. Apparently the local council identity then called the police who entered the LAME's premises and removed him by force from the airport. No warrant was produced, apparently they then realized how far over the bounds they stepped and nothing has been said about the incident since. The Sheet Metal Worker never pressed charges.

 

Two issues arise - first if you are working on aircraft surely it isn't safe to have something dangling in the way, second we all wear them stuck in a breast pocket for the same reason.

 

 

[Guest weekendwarrior]

Someone in this thread mentioned an article in the Sydney Morning Herald on 27th August 2008 titled "The terrifying cost of feeling safer". Does anyone have a copy of this article they can forward to me?I don't mind paying $2.20 to Fairfax to get the article out of their archives, but I refuse to provide all the info they want on me to access the article.

Wags.

Here it is The terrifying cost of feeling safer

 

 

[Gibbo]

R461..

 

You may find the 'powers' that are invested in you by the ASIC card and your pilots ticket interesting. You have the full right to detain the security guard next time he hassles you. You need to confirm the validity of his asic card don't you!

 

Gibbo

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

R461..You may find the 'powers' that are invested in you by the ASIC card and your pilots ticket interesting. You have the full right to detain the security guard next time he hassles you. You need to confirm the validity of his asic card don't you!

 

Gibbo

So very true Gibbo!! Will keep that one in mind for sure! :thumb_up:

 

 

[icebob]

Hi all,

 

I had a mate who is still in the Navy stay with me/us last night.

 

He drove a bus from Sydney to pick up a guard of Honor from Canberra airport and drive them back to Sydney.

 

He parked the bus went into the terminal walked out onto the tarmac where all the guard were lined up, everyone of them in uniform.

 

On trying to enter the terminal again was stopped by a security guard, you guess it no ASIC cards.

 

End result the guard went into riot control training mode and just marched through/over/around the guard out to the bus and no one said boo except the guard was horrified stating he will loose his job now. Where in the blue blazes has common sense gone to?????

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

Hi all,I had a mate who is still in the Navy stay with me/us last night.

He drove a bus from Sydney to pick up a guard of Honor from Canberra airport and drive them back to Sydney.

 

He parked the bus went into the terminal walked out onto the tarmac where all the guard were lined up, everyone of them in uniform.

 

On trying to enter the terminal again was stopped by a security guard, you guess it no ASIC cards.

 

End result the guard went into riot control training mode and just marched through/over/around the guard out to the bus and no one said boo except the guard was horrified stating he will loose his job now. Where in the blue blazes has common sense gone to?????

Unfortunately Icebob, I've found that security guards have no common sense, they just want that all out power trip. I reckon that's the problem we have at YPPH with the guards out there. They love telling us what we can and can't do, how we park the aircraft, when we can and can't taxi as well as where we can and can't taxi. It's a bloody joke.

 

Hey being The Guard Icebob, did they all have their Steyr's on them?

 

 

[facthunter]

Variation.

 

This went off the rails, in my opinion when the method of management was left to the control of the individual airport operator. SOME used a "commonsense" approach, ie. just the RPT area was out of bounds, and others went mad with the authority given. There does not appear to be any consistency.

 

At the end of the day I don't think that it makes any significant revenue for any group, but it does take money from US, (if we operate in such a way that we may need it ,even rarely). and nobody has clearly explained what it is supposed to do.

 

It seriously discriminates against pilots as a group, and enables trumped-up enforcers to "bully" pilots. who in many cases, have had security clearances in the past far in excess of those of the "enforcers".

 

What particular threat does an ultralight pose?, and in what situation would it apply? The fuel carried is insufficient to do much damage to anything, (as an incendary device). and the payload is insignificant even compared to the capacity of the boot of a car, let alone a large Van like a Sprinter.

 

An ultralight can get airborne virtually anywhere. a beach , a road or a small paddock. I can only conclude after the time that this situation has applied ,that it was done as an all-inclusive action to APPEAR TO BE DOING SOMETHING! It is about time it was reviewed.

 

It is an odd thing that the hardest security clearance to get has no value in the commercial world as an identity check, and once you have the initial card, why is the renewal the same cost. There has to be a saving once you are on record, surely? Nev..

 

 

[icebob]

Hi Brett,

 

No the guys were not armed, that was another funny. All the weapons were put into a secure vehicle on the tarmac and driven off site without anyone stopping it and the gate was left open so he could drive off the tarmac- go figure???

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I recieved another letter yesterday, this one from my local MP Peter Garrett. just stating that he has spoken to the Minister, who said that the whole system is under review and that we as both individuals and as a group should write directly to the Minister and report incidents of security gaurds who are "over the top"

 

i suggest that you report all incidents where you have been bullied ASAP so it is taken into account and that they can deal with these peckerheads. you can also report directly to the employer of the security gauds involved. if you leave it too long you will miss out on having your say and will have to wait until they decide to do another overhaul.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[Guest AerospaceTechnology]

Matthew, if the Canberra lessee is anything like BAC, they will not be reasonable. The distruction of Australian aviation began in 1989 and no govt since has had the integrity to honour the 'tax-payer' with aviation interests. Previous decades Australia had aviation 'expertise' formulate policy. Now we have sabotage from terrorists and govt !

 

 

[wags]

Thanks for the article weekendwarrior - most appreciated. I feel a couple of others would also have enjoyed reading this.

 

And a Merry Xmas to all members,

 

Wags.

 

 

[sabbasolo]

Flight planning without an ASIC

 

The system is a complete farce...

Hi, I am visiting Australia, got a SPECPL and AVID - read all the stuff on CASA website, and couldn't see why I would need an ASIC and it is hard to get from overseas. Now as I start planning my flights, I see that just about everywhere I want/need to stop - even for fuel, is a "Security Controlled Airport".

 

1) How can I reliably find out if I need an ASIC to land at these small airports which are security controlled - e.g. Mildura.

 

2) What happens if I land at a security controlled airport without an ASIC? Just for a fuel/restroom stop - maybe some food?

 

3) Somewhere I saw that if there are no RPT flights within 2 hours of your arrival/dep time, you don't need an ASIC - is this official? I emailed one airport operator and he laughed at me.

 

thanks

 

 

[Guest JRMobile]

Here is a link with an up to date list _

 

www.infrastructure.gov.au/transport/security/aviation/airports.aspx

 

Best of luck with your trip!

 

 

[sabbasolo]

Thanks, but that doesn't really answer my questions about flight planning. I can't get an ASIC in time now, so how do I deal with it?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Personally, i LOVE the asic. I get a tonne of work from it..hehe.. when peolpe arrive at our school and want to learn to fly, they are incredibly dissapointed when we tell them there's a 2 month wait on asic and student liscences, but then we tell them they can go solo or even get an RAA cert in the mean time.. In the Jab we go..

 

Keep up the red tape CASA, exellent work...:thumb_up:

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Sorry Sab, didn't see your question..

 

Sorry to hear of your delemma.. If you are caught without an asic at a security controlled apt, the fines are quite steep.. Im not sure what use the AVID card is..

 

I have heard of 2 instances in the last year where no asic fines where handed out.. So i guess you need to weigh up the risk's..

 

 

[djpacro]

Hi, I am visiting Australia, got a SPECPL and AVID - read all the stuff on CASA website, and couldn't see why I would need an ASIC

I have an AVID and no ASIC as I decided not to subscribe to the madness.

 

Now as I start planning my flights, I see that just about everywhere I want/need to stop - even for fuel, is a "Security Controlled Airport". 1) How can I reliably find out if I need an ASIC to land at these small airports which are security controlled - e.g. Mildura.

Look at ERSA for a start. Go to Yarrawonga instead of Mildura. Where do you want to go from/to? You don't need an ASIC at Moorabbin (Melbourne) for example and visitors are encouraged even though there is RPT and ERSA simply states that it is a security controlled airport. Google revealed that Archerfield also seems to have a sensible security plan.

 

What happens if I land at a security controlled airport without an ASIC? Just for a fuel/restroom stop - maybe some food?

I've heard that it can be more trouble than its worth however I did it myself a couple of years ago as a higher authority wanted me to stop prior to my planned stop in northern NSW. Fortunately no-one was around at all, big fence around the airport but the gates were wide open. I wouldn't recommend it.

 

Somewhere I saw that if there are no RPT flights within 2 hours of your arrival/dep time, you don't need an ASIC - is this official?

I've heard that too but apart from contacting individual airports I don't know how you'd find out. eg I heard from a local that Latrobe Valley is OK and I visited but ERSA is not very useful.PS - the red tape is not by CASA - it is Security Controlled Airports

 

 

[Tomo]

If you've got the papers proving that you've got an ASIC coming, shouldn't that help you out a bit?

 

Just like when your registering a car and waiting for the plates to turn up... you carry around your rego papers in that period...but you can still drive it on the road...

 

Not sure if it's the same with an ASIC but it wouldn't hurt ringing up CASA and finding out...

 

Just my 2cents worth... (Oh, Yeah... forgot to add GST, 2.2cents...)

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

You can see a bucket load of Australia without an ASIC. In Victoria for instance you can go to Shepparton, Yarrawonga, Mangalore, Bendigo, Kyneton, Echuca....without an ASIC

 

Your problem arises around major and capital cities.

 

I wouldn't advise ignoring it, and certainly not on a planned or consistent basis. One of the local megalomaniacs will get you - the greatest chance for fame in their week.

 

As DJP says what's your itinerary and we can maybe help.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[sabbasolo]

Itinerary for flight planning help.

 

As DJP says what's your itinerary and we can maybe help.

Thanks, two trips in a C182:

 

Moorabbin to Andamooka (YAMK). I need to arrive at YAMK with enough fuel to get back, so 1 stop needs to be withing say 150 nm of YAMK. Need 1 or 2 stops on the way from YMMB to refuel and to refresh ourselves.

 

Second trip: Moorabbin to Archerfield and back. Looking for stops to eat/refuel, and possibly with some tourist interest, or something to see from the air. Also -anyone know how I arrange overnight parking at Archerfield please?

 

Thanks in advance for your help

 

 

[ahlocks]

Can offer an ASIC escort at YSWG

 

Easy access to fuel and a piddle for a quickie. Reasonable cafeteria in the terminal, although it's hours are subject to RPT movements.

 

With advance notice, could organise transport into town for a flash feed or accom.

 

 

[sabbasolo]

To let you know the status

 

MIA, PAG and BHI are all friendly without an ASIC, even though formally they require them. It helps if you are specially trained to read the signs (MIA) or know how to turn door handles (others).

 

I hope it is the same for many other country airports. The flight was YMMB YMIA YPAG YAMK Lake Eyre in flooding, then YBHI and YMMB.

 

Can anyone advise me on a good route and a suitable intermediate stop for lunch when travelling YMMB YBAF next week? Are there commonly flown routes?

 

 

[Guest Decca]

Update from AOPA

 

Just read an article in Aust Pilot Mar-Apr 2009 (Aircraft Owners & Pilot's Assoc.); "ASIC Cards: YOUR SAY" (P.53).

 

Obviously a ground swell of discontent from within AOPA, as illustrated by many written objections to the system.

 

Part of the headline; "AOPA is actively campaigning to have the card abolished".

 

Well worth a read. Regards, Decca.