BFR required and using Rec Regoed aircraft

[Flyer]

Hi All

 

This is what I currently have....

 

Non current PPL. To fix, pass a medical and do a BFR (or whatever it's called these days)

 

Very current Pilots Certificate for rec aircraft inc passenger carrying and x-country endorsements.

 

My questions.....

 

1. can I use a rec regoed aircraft to do a PPL BFR or do I need to use a VH-xxx regoed aircraft ?

 

2. If I can use a rec regoed aircraft, does anybody know a good instructor that would be obliging ?

 

3. If I cant use a rec regoed aircraft, can anybody put forward a training institution that could help....happy to travel a bit to get someone decent...

 

4. I dont want to operate out of Moorabbin because I dont like wasting half an hour in taxi time...

 

I currently operate out of Tooradin in Victoria and would be quite happy to do my BFR there but unfortunately its only a RA-Aus school....

 

 

[Admin]

Flyer, I am under the impression that you can do your PPL BFR in the aircraft that you mostly fly and that means even an RAAus reg'd aircraft.

 

Perhaps a call to CASA at Moorabbin may answer the question however I believed it was discussed here in the forums about 2 years ago and this was the conclusion after several calls to CASA.

 

The problem I have here with the search facility in the forums which I need to look into is MySQL has a 4 character word search mimimum otherwise the database performance would drop considerably so a search for BFR won't work.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

The review has to be undertaken by an instructor who is licensed/certified on that particular aircraft. A flying instructor from CASA land is not certified on an RA registered aircraft and vice versa meaning they can't do the review in these circumstances. A quick look at the CARs doesn't shed much light on the matter but there are a few things that hint this might be the case.

 

Section 5.81 of the CARs covers flight reviews:

 

5.81 Private (aeroplane) pilot: regular flight reviews required

 

(1) A private (aeroplane) pilot must not fly an aeroplane as pilot in command if the pilot has not, within the period of 2 years immediately before the day of the proposed flight, satisfactorily completed an aeroplane flight review.

 

Under the definition section of the CARs an aeroplane flight review is defined as:

 

a test of the aeronautical skills and aeronautical knowledge relevant to aeroplane flight of the person undertaking the review.

 

This implies that the instructor that is doing the testing should be able to fly the aircraft in question but we all know that a CASA licence is not sufficient to fly an RAA registered aircraft.

 

To clear this up there is a CAAP on the subject (http://www.casa.gov.au/download/CAAPs/ops/5_81_1.pdf). The CAAP details who is pilot in command during the review:

 

13. Logging of flight time

 

13.1 The person conducting a flight review is pilot-in-command. In the majority of cases, a private pilot will receive some flight instruction and should log the flight time as dual.

 

Again, a CASA licensed instructor cannot be the PIC of an RAA aircraft so this precludes them from doing the review in this type of aircraft.

 

So the answer is no, you can't do a PPL review in an RAA aircraft.

 

That said, there is now an explicit mention of CASA reviews in the Ops Manual:

 

If a certificate holder has within a period of two years immediately preceding the flight, has passed a flight check for the renewal or initial issue of a CASA approved Private Pilots Licence, then the pilot is taken to have sufficiently completed a flight review on high performance aircraft only.

 

So if you do a PPL review then you are automatically checked off in RAA HP land too. For LP you would have to go with an RAA registered aircraft.

 

 

[antzx6r]

However if a PPL examiner who also holds a RAA ticket does the BFR in a RA rego'd aircraft, that would seem to cover it. I could also be wrong tho.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

However if a PPL examiner who also holds a RAA ticket does the BFR in a RA rego'd aircraft, that would seem to cover it. I could also be wrong tho.

This would only cover the RAA review, not the PPL.

 

 

[MrH]

Maybe call Lilydale - they do both & may have the answer for you

 

Ph (03) 9739 1211

 

H

 

 

[storchy neil]

:thumb_up::thumb_up::clap:flyer the good news that by ringing 0358235411 you will be able to do in a raa reg aircraft all that that you want to do :thumb_up::thumb_up:neil

 

 

[Guest airsick]

flyer the good news that by ringing 0358235411 you will be able to do in a raa reg aircraft all that that you want to do

This is interesting. I was told by a CASA official some time ago that you couldn't do this. The reasoning was that the CASA authorised instructor has to be PIC and cannot do so in an RAA aircraft. If he does the AFR/BFR in the RAA registered aircraft as an RAA instructor then he isn't allowed to exercise the privileges granted to him by CASA (because he can't fly as PIC using his CASA qualifications) so he can't sign off on the AFR for your PPL.

 

I was also told by someone else (I think it was Mick Poole) that this was why the Ops Manual had been changed to clear up the confusion surrounding multiple flight reviews. Up until this latest version it was up to the instructor in question whether he/she would waive the review or not if you had done a review for your PPL. Now you don't even have to see an instructor, it is explicitly stated that you don't need to do a review at all once you have done the CASA one.

 

Has something changed to allow this to happen now (the bit about testing in an RAA aircraft)? If so can someone point to the appropriate regulation/legislation? I don't want to get caught with an insurance argument or something similar if I end up doing my review this way. thumb_down

 

 

[antzx6r]

The reasoning was that the CASA authorised instructor has to be PIC and cannot do so in an RAA aircraft. If he does the AFR/BFR in the RAA registered aircraft as an RAA instructor then he isn't allowed to exercise the privileges granted to him by CASA (because he can't fly as PIC using his CASA qualifications) so he can't sign off on the AFR for your PPL.

Every time I here this type of explanation for various stuff, I get an immediate flashback to hitchhikers guide.

 

If it wasn't so depressingly hard to get anything done it would be hilarious. I suppose you gotta at least smile.:clown:

 

 

[Guest airsick]

I won't argue with that point. The bureaucracy surrounding this is .

 

 

[hihosland]

Is the testing officer the PIC during a flight review?

 

 

[Guest brentc]

If you are unsure I would be reluctant to call random numbers provided of flying schools or people's mates. Best off covering your bases by obtaining the correct factual information from CASA or RA-Aus and possibly posting it here with the appropriate reference. Opinion from flying schools will inevitably differ significantly so care must be used.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Is the testing officer the PIC during a flight review?

See my earlier post:

 

To clear this up there is a CAAP on the subject (http://www.casa.gov.au/download/CAAPs/ops/5_81_1.pdf). The CAAP details who is pilot in command during the review:

13. Logging of flight time

 

13.1 The person conducting a flight review is pilot-in-command. In the majority of cases, a private pilot will receive some flight instruction and should log the flight time as dual.

So yes, the testing officer conducting the review is the PIC, you should log it as dual time.

 

 

[hihosland]

So what happens when a pilot who does all his flying in a single seat aircraft books a flight review?.

 

Can he not do it in his single seat aircraft?

 

or

 

does he do it in his single seat as PIC and then has a ground session with his testing officer?

 

My understanding is that flight reviews are being done in single seat aircraft both RAA and VH are such reviews invalid?

 

just curious

 

Davidh

 

 

[hihosland]

Just went and read the CAAP

 

where it is clear that there is provision for a flight review in a single seat aircraft.

 

THE CAAP goes on to say

 

"""7.1 Any licensed aeroplane or helicopter pilot, or commercial

 

balloon pilot may substitute a flight review, if, within a period of

 

two years before the proposed flight, they have:

 

• passed a flight test for the purpose of the issue of a licence,

 

or issue or renewal of a pilot rating;

 

• satisfactorily completed a proficiency check and the

 

conducting organisation has made an entry to that effect in

 

the pilot’s log-book; ""

 

Can a RAA school comply as a "conducting organisation" in this context. IF so then a RAA flight review would meet the requirements for a PPL flight review.

 

Still curious and trying on the bush lawyer hat for size

 

Davidh

 

 

[storchy neil]

flyer still good news as the cfi at that number 0358235411 shepparton is ga and raa :thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

yes i do agree that there is lot nit picking

 

yes bentc :thumb_up:i totaly agree that differant schools have differant ideas one school told a person that as he was learning in a raa regestard plane he could not do ga test thumb_down

 

i did all of my test and exams to the ga standard cross country and all in a raa plane

 

may i once again mention the standard that nathan shepp mathew shepp stewart shepp tristo shepp terry sunberry who taught me saved my ass :thumb_up::thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

yes and each off those blokes had differant veiws as to what is required to pilot a plane neil

 

 

[gregrobertson]

Try Tyab, they have both GA and RAA aircraft and it's close to home.

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Perhaps Mat Ford at CASA at YMMB could help you with this.

 

He is now a CASA testing officer but he is also an RAAus PE and understands the two systems thoroughly.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Flyer]

Wow... there's some pretty varied responses here..:thumb_up:

 

I can see why my brain was just a bit confused.:confused:.

 

I think I'll give Mat Ford a call at CASA and see what he has to say.

 

I'll post the response accordingly as I think I'm not the only one thinking along these lines.....

 

Thanks for the responses sofar....:thumb_up:

 

Phil

 

 

[IanR]

I am interested in this discussion from the opposite perspective. Our local RAA school is also GA. They have a nice J230 but its VH registered. Would be perfect for me as I am quite heavy ! I asked if I could do my RAA certificate in it and the answer was yes.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

What will you do your solo flying in though?

 

 

[IanR]

There are plenty of aircraft round I can use - just not at schools nearby ! I could use a J160 dual as well with reduced fuel. At The Oaks they don't have anything like those though.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

comon over mate.. :thumb_up:

 

 

[IanR]

comon over mate.. :thumb_up:

Probably will soon. I like the look of that 230 !

 

 

[motzartmerv]

ya seen the sportstar??