Holding a Fixed Wing and Rotary Wing pilots licence?

[nathan_c]

A interesting though popped into my head a few days ago... Is it possible to hold a fixed wing and helicopter licence at the same time? Im tending to lean towards the realisation its probably not allowed, because of the rotary conversion courses that are held, so obvioulsy you lose one to gain the other on those courses. The thing is, I dont see the problem with it, If your perfectly capable of doing both, and can show that you are capable of flying both, whats the issue?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Anyway, the main reason i brought it up is because in later life I would like to hold both if I can, because it gives variety, but post up your answers and/or thoughts, im interested to hear them.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[facthunter]

Dual Rotary and fixed wing.

 

Where did you get the idea that you can not hold both? My older licences are marked permanently valid. They would have to be subject to medical and recency considerations That is all.. The only consideration that supports your suggestion that I can think of is a sanity issue . (just kidding) Nev..

 

 

[nathan_c]

Really? Oh ok. Haha, I guess someone somewhere gave me a false impression then.

 

 

[facthunter]

cont.

 

Yes, I can't see any conflict. The fact is that it is all part of your aeronautical experience. The thing with weightshift and 3-axis you would think might cause a slower reaction than what might result if one type only existed. I have witnessed a couple of minor foul-ups with left to right seat transfers in two pilot side-by-side, but no worse than the effort some people put up in left hand drive situations in other countries.Nev..

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

No problem with holding both. I know a few people who have RAA, GA, ATPL fixed wing and then multi IFR Rotory plus gliding and hang gliding. Some poeple just can't get enough! I'd love to add Rotory but I don't have $25,000 for the conversion!

 

Adam

 

 

[nathan_c]

I dont blame them for not getting enough! Im currently a glider pilot, and am aiming at entering the ADF as a blackhawk pilot, and then trying to get a fixed wing licence.

 

The main reason I wanted to know was after I finished with the army, was I would like to keep the chopper licence, and then also get a fixed wing, even if its only PPL, not CPL, so I can fly whatever I want.

 

 

[facthunter]

Military to civil.

 

What equivalence you achieve in the change-over will be the thing. I would have thought that it would be above PPL., I think there used to be an air legislation exam, but I wouldn't be surprised if that is already covered. You have a bit of time to look at all that. If you want employment overseas then you might not worry about the australian qualification at all. nev

 

 

[nathan_c]

Im sorry hunter? I dont seem to understand what you mean?

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I know of people that don't like to fly fixed wing (especially tail dragger) if they are expecting to be in the chopper in the near future - one false move on the rudder (thinking you're in a tail-dragger) could be fatal.

 

No restrictions on licence however.

 

If you were commercial CPL(A), expect around 38 hours conversion to CPL(H) if you're on the ball.

 

 

[nathan_c]

So conflicting types of flying you think? If you have alot of Chopper hours, doing some fixed wing flying wouldnt hurt? Because making a wrong move in a plane thinking you are in a chopper is more forgiving yea?

 

 

[facthunter]

This is not a big deal.

 

Nathan , Everything obeys the laws of physics. Fly/ interact with every kind if flying machine that you can find out there. IF you really want to. I think you are making it appear more difficult than it really is .Nev

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

I know of people that don't like to fly fixed wing (especially tail dragger) if they are expecting to be in the chopper in the near future - one false move on the rudder (thinking you're in a tail-dragger) could be fatal.

Yes, there was a former AJ Hely pilot landing a Stearman down Cooly way who had some problems - was'nt fatal though :thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

perhaps the quickest way to resolve the apparent issue is to ask, how does an Army Chopper pilot get trained.

 

As I understand it all 3 services do initial pilot training at the BAE Systems Facility at Tamworth. At that stage there are no choppers involved just basic 3 axis trainers. I dont believe anyoine leaves that facility, unless by being offcoursed, without the ability to fly 3axis aircraft by themselves. FWIW Singapore Air Force also train at Tamworth.

 

I guess if there really was an issue with 3 axis and choppers they wouldnt start with 3 axis.

 

I fly trikes and 3 axis never yet had to think about what Im doing, with regard to control movements, in either , never been crossed over and dont know anyone who has (edit clarity, trike vs 3 axis only) , yet everybody wants to talk about it as an issue( trike vs 3axis only) ... Must be one of those folklore things that just wont go away....

 

Andy

 

 

[facthunter]

Individuals.

 

Nathan, to clarify a point earlier to you. There are sometimes better licences to hold than the australian one, if you want to work overseas, but you have time to think about that.

 

I have to revise the emphasis of my argument on the other matter too.(different control responses, reversion to a former type,) as it seems to affect some people more than others, but it does happen I can assure you, and usually under a stress/fatigue/unfamiliar situation.

 

When you go on a totally new aircraft, you have to get the previous one out of your head , you have to UNLEARN it, or you really make it hard for yourself, getting to grips with the "new" one. This is recognised in Airline ops where a family of aircraft could/would be operated in a mixed roster, but not including a totally different type.

 

Andy, I don't believe it's a folklore thing at all. With many students you can often work out why they do things in a certain way when you become aware of some aviation, or other, activity that they have experienced . Farmers often move the throttle the wrong way, (because that's the way the tractor works).

 

I had to teach a pilot to fly the Tiger moth, who had never flown a piston engined or tailwheel aircraft. All his time had been on jets. Amongst other things, he would occasionally do NOTHING rudder-wise after landing, with the inevitable result. I know pilots who could not contemplate flying an aircraft that has the throttle and joystick reversed to what they are used to. I could write pages of examples that I have personally witnessed of confusion, and there is plenty documented also, only because the outcome was not good. Nev..

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Nev

 

I stand corrected. Maybe I should have just limited my response to the trike to 3 axis reference, rather than all (at least in my mind that was all that I was refering to...mainly because my experience doesnt extend beyond that and as such have no reference on which to comment)

 

In reality, personal observations only, trike vs 3 axis, you couldnt get more different controls and perhaps that why I havent seen any issues. For the trike throttle control is the Right foot like a car accelerator. the 2 axis controls are a horizontal bar. Perhaps if it was a joystick arrangement then the potential for confussion would be significantly higher.

 

Apologies for any apparent missrepresentation of the facts.

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest bateo]

I have got a Recreational licence + Tail dragger endorsement, PPL Fixed wing and now currently undertaking my CPL ®. I have no problems, and in fact often fly a helicopter all week and at the end of the week jump into the Tecnam and fly home.

 

At no point do I have any trouble in the combination of the controls. I must admit, when first starting rotary I did tend to try and fly it like a fixed wing.

 

I think if you were to do both, to fly both types frequently and not 'lose your touch' and you should not have any trouble...

 

To do a conversion it is 38 hours (70 for me because I only have my Private fixed wing) But to do this in the minimum 38 hours... Your doing really well!

 

 

[facthunter]

Response..

 

Andy. I got to thinking after reading your post That I had responded along the lines of how I currently operate, (where I am not flying lots of hours in ONE type,) and swapping seats as well. By flying many different characteristic A/C you NEVER get into the mindset of it being "super comfortable" or "dangerously familiar" complacent/lazy, where things become almost automatic. (take your pick, hope you get what I mean). Once I got a bit more introspective and dug around for examples, they were there for even me to see.& I realised I had started off on the wrong tack.... Nev

 

 

[Mazda]

I know people with fixed wing, helicopter and RA-Aus licences, who regularly swap between jets, trikes and helicopters with no problems.