To do my PPL or not..

[Guest Crezzi]

There are also a couple at Caboolture

 

Caboolture Recreational Aviation

 

Pro-Sky Caboolture

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

This may sound silly, but... whats the difference between GA and RA? I thing GA = General Aviation, and RA = Recrational Aviation, but whats the diff?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

According to Wikipedia:

 

General aviation refers to all flights other than military and scheduled airline flights, both private and commercial. General aviation flights range from gliders and powered parachutes to large, non-scheduled cargo jet flights. As a result, the majority of the world's air traffic falls into this category, and most of the world's airports serve general aviation exclusively.

So RA-Aus *IS* general aviation and at the same time, you can certainly use your PPL and VH registered plane for recreational purposes. Rather confusing!

 

 

[Ardydublu]

Another option

 

Hi Cralis,

 

I support and agree with all of the above comments, but have a little extra to offer.

 

I started flying gliders back in the '70s. Developed to full on passion owning my own open class glider and having an assistant instructor rating. I did all the PPL theory purely out of my interest in aviation, no intention of flying 'stink wings'. Then 12 months later when my PPL theory was about to expire currency, I did the practical and received about 30 hours dispensation for all my gliding experience.

 

Then through changed circumstances, time and money deserted me(at the same time) and I ceased all flying. 28 years later, the passion still burns and now I've resumed. Similar issues to yourself. Do I go GA @ $240-$300/hr? Do I get into this new(now 25 years old) RAA thing @ $120-$180/hr? Am I still interested in gliding - cheaper again?

 

Reading through your comments above, I perceive some Gung-ho raw enthusiasm gradually being tempered by the realities of family life, supporting a family and a budget. Now I'm not wanting to quash your enthusiasm because anything is possible and you can make it happen. I have a 60+ year old friend who has just taken up a CPL flying position. There is a demand for professional aviators at many levels, but a lot of them are not real family friendly. Regardless of where you finish up, flying experience is accumulative with all your basic and early experiences adding to and improving your ultimate airmanship as an aviator. As others above have also alluded, the broader the experience the better if you genuinely harbour ambitions of instructing. Where you start is entirely up to you and your budget, but if you start at GA and burn yourself out through funding restrictions, you might lose a wonderful opportunity for a lifetime of pleasure in aviation.

 

I actually resumed gliding with a club operating only a single motorglider. Probably one of the most economical independent forms of recreational aviation. I've also completed my RAA flying certificate and am now working on my GA biannual flight review which is all that is needed to renew the PPL qualification. When all done, I'll have all three bases covered. Go gliding for purely recreational pleasure, RAA for modest 2 person trips and GA for 4 or more.

 

The options are there Cralis, you don't have to make a decision on the final results and costs right now, they would stop you from ever flying if you let them. You will not become expert and experienced overnight, or at the end of a course, or after your money has expired. You will only achieve respect as an aviator after you've done a lot of it and done it safely and well. $15K will buy you a hell of a lot more flying experience, fun and qualification as a safe aviator at the RAA and GFA(gliding) level than a GA PPL could ever get you. Even after $5K-$10K of spend at the lower levels you would have more experience than simple completion of a PPL. Then if you want a PPL as well, it sure isn't going to cost you $15K. Time factor is the other thing. It all takes time. So the only question really left is when are you going to start? A Trial Instruction Flight (TIF) at Redcliffe this weekend or Caboolture or Calloundra or anywhere else is probably good.

 

Good luck and safe flying -- Enjoy!!!

 

Rob from SA.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

PS: Have you been to the RA-Aus website? Read the about section to see how it is different from those flying VH registered planes on their CASA issued pilot licenses.

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Thanks Rob (From SA).

 

Very nice post, and helpfully settling. What you say makes loads of sense, and actually makes me feel more like I can do it than I did this time yesterday, when I joined the forums. My wife knows how much I'd like to fly, and she's backing me all the way. She's an extremely positive person, and fully believes in the power of the mind. I, on the other hand, am more cautious, but nevertheless, feel pretty positive about doing this. Your post basically cements a lot of what I have been wondering.

 

You're right - no rush. However, I'd like to get started. I can't afford to do it all in 12 weeks flat. When I say 'do it', I refer to going the RA route, and then once I build hours and confidence, maybe the PPL.

 

So, the plan: Do the trial flight. Study (Self? Do I go buy some recommended books?). Enrole for lessons. Obtain my RA certificate (?) and do all the things nessesary to fly safely and with a passanger. Fly and gain hours and experience, hopefully meeting like minded people who I can learn from/with. Then, maybe look into PPL which would give me the opportunity for flying further away from my 'school', carry more people and know more about aviation.

 

You're right about the enthusiasm. Not sure if Gung-Ho is the right word though. It might mean something different, but to me.. Cowboys and Gung-Ho seem to go hand in hand. I feel I am more cautiously enthusiastic. I got fly gate to gate in the jump seat of a 737 from Cape Town to Johannesburg about 5 times (Pre 9/11) which for me, where magical times. I also got to fly with my Uncles brother in a JetRanger and a BO105 (Heli) between Johannesburg, Bloemfontein and Pretoria a few times (That will mean not much to most here, but it's a fair distance). Fantastic. Probably the best days of my life.. and I wasn't even flying! :)

 

So, enthusiastic - yes. :thumb_up:

 

I'm not sure where the $15K came from. I think I saw it on a schools site, for PPL. But it sounds like the RA route is the winner. At the moment, I just want to learn to fly.. learn about aviation.. about aircraft. I fly R/C Helicopters and have just finished building a GWS Slow Stick plane which should mainden next week. That's the closest to flying something I have been - and love it. Imagine a full scale! (Wait, you don't need to imaging - you've got the shirt!)

 

So again, thanks for the post - very positive and real. I'm trying to contact the one at Redcliff... might not do lessons there.. Some strange stories going around, but ... lets try get a trial flight. Will report. :)

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

OK - booked in for a Trail Flight at 14h00 today... I'll be going in a Jabiru, at this place:

 

Jabiru Aircraft

 

 

[Flyer]

You'll have a bag of fun. Enjoy the experience and lets know what it was like....

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

My first 30 minutes towards my RA complete

 

Hi guys,

 

Just back from a 20/30 minute flight in a Jabiru 170, out of Caboolture Aerodrome. That was fantastic. I walked in, and explained that I called earlier for a trial flight... My pilot came and greeted me, and we went out to the aircraft. Not much chat, which was a shame. We did the aircraft inspection, fuel check, gear etc.

 

I then got in the left side... and him on the right, and we had a short chat on what we were going to do. Started up.. and then he did the taxing while were in a bit of traffic, but he then let me steer to the runway. MAN.. you have to push those peddles hard! He me that it will feel like I'm going to break them... so I guess it's normal. Weaved a bit, but it was fun.

 

He did his call, and then lined onto RW7 (or was it 6?), and off we went.. bumpy bumpy.. then smooth, and up we went... straight out.. flaps in, and we accelerated to around 80 (Knots?).. I can't recall the high we went to.. I think it was 2,000'.

 

I was keeping my hands on the controls and throttle, and my feet on the rudder to feel the movements.

 

At straight and level, he said I can take it... but.. that was basically just holding the controls lightly. We just went straight. Really not much to do. I was hoping he's say, 'Steer us to 90 east...' but .. nothing. Chatted a bit about the panel and what it all meant. (Flight Simulator has it pretty real, as I was clued up on it all!).

 

Did a left turn back down past the field... left turn.. final, and bounced a bit on the landing. Got a bit bumpy just before we landed, but all good.

 

Called clear of runway, and parked.

 

Very cool. I'd have maybe prefered a bit more chat, but it was good. Got back to the office and they took $90 off me... gave me a few bits of paper, and they said, 'Ok, that's it then'. So I probed a few questions out of them...

 

I wasn't allowed ( ) to see the books, but they pointed out a box of books I would need to get for $140... And they gave me a lesson by lesson breakdown of the 24 lessons I would need.

 

All in all, I was happy with the flight. An enjoyable 30 or so minutes...

 

Now what!?

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Oh! Oh! Photos!! :big_grin:

 

Nope... no idea how to upload. :(

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Here we go..

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

Great to hear you took your first steps towards the end goal! Now all you have to do is find the school and instructor that is right for you maybe the one from today or maybe someone you haven't spoken to yet. Its worth talking to a few as people learn different ways and some appoaches work better for some than others.

 

Good to see you taking positive steps.

 

 

[Tomo]

G'day Cralis,

 

It's a shame the instructor didn't let you do any other turns etc... at least you got the left turn 'down-pat'

 

Its good to hear that you've started, I did my TIF about 18months ago, but haven't had time to do the training yet, getting closer though. Trying to do Yr12, and second yr part time diesel fitter apprentice, and every thing else sort of uses up all your time, and MONEY:sad:

 

Cheers:thumb_up:

 

Tom

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Thanks guys.

 

Tom - Go for it!! You have youth on your side though... lucky bugger! :thumb_up:

 

Since I am slowly coming down off my high, I have a few things I'd like to ask:

 

Firstly, I was slightly set back as to how hard it was to get my feet and hand working for the turns. I know I've only been in the cockpit for 20 minutes, of which I got the controls for about 7 minutes, of which 90% of that was just resting my hand on them, as it flys it's self, really. But, I did ask if I could change direction slightly, to see how it feels, and he said that was cool. So, I started a slight right hand turn... I put in some right aileron, and then followed with a small bit of rudder, to attempt a co-ordinated turn.

 

Failed - dismally. Could feel the plane sliding around... Little ball was all over the place. :confused:

 

A few reasons though. I was nervous as all hell, and also, I found the rudder peddles hard to get a feel of. I was scared to push too hard in case I over did it, but too softly, and I couldn't feel movement. Is that normal? Can you think back to your first go in a Jab? Are the rudder peddles meant to be that heavy?

 

Anyway, during the turns, which were slight.. I mean maybe 10 degrees left then an attempt to return back to course... I felt out of control. The plane slides, and I was blank. I assume it was maybe too much rudder? So, maybe the movement in the peddles is lower than I expect, but the rudder was moving more than I thought?

 

Anyway, I fly in MS Flight Simulator X. I know it's not the real thing, but.. would it be useful as a co-ordinated turn trainer? Infact, could it be used as a training aid? It has all the same instruments... there may even be a Jab model? I currently use a twist joystick. I could use that, and get peddles. Would that be at all beneficial?

 

 

[Flyer]

Well done with the TIF. Haven't flown a J170 yet but have a bit of time in the J160. I generally find they dont need a lot of rudder to co-ordinate the turns but as you found out, the pedals have a bit of a dead feel to them. Jump into an LSA and you'll learn how to use the rudder quick smart .

 

If your instructor wasn't that chatty maybe he was having a bad day but I'd have at least thought he'd have shown you the books. Suss out some other schools and just see what they're like. Personal opinion here, if you walk into a school and they bag everybody elses school probably leave them alone....

 

Well done on the TIF again and nice photos...

 

 

[Tomo]

G'day,

 

I did my TIF in a GA aircraft (Piper Tomahawk PA 36 or 28? can't remember), so can't help you with the J170... but I can remember that I did a bit a of sliding, but the fella said that I didn't put enough rudder in. I got it figured out after a while, well I thought I did anyway:big_grin:... but the 20-30 minutes goes very fast that for sure. "Time flys when your having FUN":thumb_up:..........

 

I did my TIF in at Toowoomba at the Darling Downs Aero Club, but they only do GA training... so I'm looking at doing my training at Dalby with Bob Keen in a J120:thumb_up:

 

HAVE FUN:big_grin:

 

Tom

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Good stuff mate. Don't worry about the rudder issues. Your doing what most people do after their TIF and thats get worried about the things they couldn't do properly. You get a hell of a lot of practise before your test.

 

Sounds like a bit of a slack TIF though. I'd be looking for someone who's willing to spend the time answering questions and giving you a descent go on the controls.

 

cheers and have fun

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

ANy opinions on using Flight Simulator has a Co-Ordinated turn training aid? Can I maybe post a short video of what I am trying to do, and what the turn indicator is telling me?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Don't worry about it too much - the feel of the sim will be very different to that of a real aircraft.

 

The more you fly, the more you will be able to multi-task in the cockpit. After a couple of lessons you will find yourself actually having the time to look at the ball a bit more in the turns and when changing power settings. Then you'll be able to coordinate better and once you have done that for a few lessons, you will find yourself looking at it less and less and just do it mostly by experience with only a cursory glance to see it you are on the ball.

 

Lessons go real quick and often you won't do a new task very well. But instead of feeling bad about this, think and talk about it afterwards and visualise it in your head. Then look forward to the next lesson when you will probably get it right and move on to another technique!

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Thanks Bass.

 

Sounds like a plan.

 

I just did a FS flight from Archerfield here in QLD, and managed to record it. What I was trying to watch was the ball. Trying to see exactly how the turns are meant to be done. I find going into the turn, I'm doing OK.. and then holding it there... It's the straightening I'm battling with.

 

If you have a spare few moments, see this video I just recorded on the Sim. I'm focusing on the ball here, but you'll see it goes way out when I try and straighten. (Also, battled on the take off for some reason. :( )

 

This is a recording from a Cessena 172, with a 9 knot wind from 0 Degrees, taking off RW04L. FGile is 18 Meg.. Any more compression, and you can't see anything.

 

http://www.listerhome.com/video/Archerfield.wmv

 

 

[Flyer]

Hey Cralis

 

I'm gonna jump on you a bit here and give you some rules to play by. :hittinghead:

 

Firstly, dont over analyse everything you're doing, you may be making bad habits for yourself. Let your instructor teach you how its done. :thumb_up:

 

Secondly.....HAVE FUN my man. That's why we do this...to have fun.

 

Then thirdly....enjoy the journey. Enjoy each and every lesson because you're doing something you want to do....

 

Fourth rule. See the first 3 rules....

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Thanks for that.

 

Too excited...

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Forget the simulator, it will only make you fixate on the ball. Do what Flyer said - let your instructor teach you and enjoy the ride. Few people will manage balanced turns in their first outing.

 

 

[Tomo]

I just remembered one other thing when I did my TIF.... the instructor said, try and LOOK at the HORIZON for your attitude and not at the instruments, all the time... because you'll end up needing the instruments for everything you do, and if for some reason your instruments pack it in, your gonna be in big trouble:sad:..... but somebody correct me if I'm wrong:big_grin:

 

HAVE FUN:laugh:

 

Tom

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea man, eyes outside. We don't fly on instruments . You will be taught a scan technique, the horizen is you main referance with regards to how the acft is performing ie, climbing descending turning etc. with a quick glance at the instruments, IAS, VSI, ALT, then back outside.

 

cheers, have fun