To do my PPL or not..

[Guest Cralis]

He's got a flying school in Port Alfred, on South Africa's south east coast, with 25odd aircraft and 130staff....

Not for long... mBeki just stood down, and Jacob Zuma is about to rule... And if he has his way... :hittinghead:

 

Anyway,

 

I'll take a look, Tom. Thanks.

 

 

[Tomo]

Ah well, if it changes. It'll only change to "He had a flying school........"

 

 

[Al B]

Cralis,

 

I did my power training at Prosky Caboolture, and I highly recommend it. Keep your wits about you, as Zane has a gift for distracting you before simulating engine failures :-)

 

The Echo is nice, but when you get your license the Sierra is a lot more fun to fly.

 

By the way, has anyone ever flown with Avalon @ YCAB? I'm seriously thinking of doing a PPL with them.

 

Cheers

 

Al

 

 

[sain]

I think all instructors are like that. There i'd be cruising along and enjoying the ride and Teraya (the instructor at goulburn) would say something like "Wow, look at that car going round Wakefield" or "Look at the sheep all heading for the water trough". Sure enough when I looked over a car would be doing a fantastic slide around one of the corners, or the sheep would be in some interesting formation (or sliding round corners) and everything would get a lot quieter.

 

I can only imagine the hours she spent training the sheep to form up into patterns whenever they heard the Gazelle flying overhead.

 

I still get twitchy if I'm driving along in the car and my girlfriend says something along the "ohh look at the sheep".

 

It was worse when she said that shortly after takeoff when I took her up for the first time after getting my passenger endorsement. Definately a "oh " moment.

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

I understand that my age dictates that it will probably never happen: However, I was just browsing around carrier sites in Australia, and the very first one that I came across - regional express.. has this in it's pilot employment ads:

 

Position Responsibility

 

We require all applicants to possess the following:

 

• Australian Commercial Pilot Licence or Australian Air Transport Pilot Licence

 

• Command Multi Engine Instrument Rating

 

• Civil Aviation Safety Authority Class 1 medical certificate

 

• Minimum of 800 hours total flight time

 

• Minimum of 250 hours command or ICUS flight time on multi-engine aircraft under the I.F.R

 

• Australian citizen or permanent residence status.

 

Whats an ICUS ?

 

Also, when it refers to command, is that PIC? So, not captain? And that total of 800 hours - would my 30 minutes count towards my 800 hours??

 

Jeees - it looks like getting paid to fly is pretty hard to get into, due to their demands. :(

 

 

[sain]

Don't know what ICUS is - possibly In Command Under Supervision... (?)

 

Yes, your 30 minutes counts. When you get your log book you'll need to write it in and get it signed by the instructor.

 

Rex also has a cadetship program if you really want to go that route. I think you may need some flying experience to get into it, and you should take a really careful look at the conditions of employment before taking it up.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Yes, your 30 minutes count! ;-)

 

You'd be surprised at what age some people got their CPL and started flying airline! If you want it, it just costs a lot of time and money...

 

Many airlines, including Rex have a training program also. (See the "cadet" program on their site) If you really want to, have 40 grand available (plus more to feed the family while you train), are selected and don't mind not earning a lot of money afterwards for quite a while and possibly living in a more remote location, you could be a regional airline pilot this time next year!

 

Seriously, if you want it, don't let your age get in the way. It didn't sound like you are *that* old!

 

 

[Mazda]

ICUS is in command under supervision, and it can only be logged after you have a CPL, so don't worry about that just yet.

 

Get the books and read if you like to know what to expect. I particularly like the old Trevor Thom/ATC flying training manual, which outlines each of the practical lessons in the GA syllabus. I would always read about each lesson before I did it and it made sense. Just a lesson or so in advance, anything more and it may not make sense.

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

I'm 33... amm... 34 really.

 

What is this Rex thing you speak of?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Rex = regional express.

 

My cousin is now doing a self-funded CPL course and students range from his age (19!) to your age.

 

Basically, the more money you have, the more hours you can fly in training and the quicker you'll be employed. Others choose to build hours with low paid jobs like flying Cessnas on stations or tourist sight-seeing or get into instructing.

 

Didn't you say you developed software? Airline pilots have a lot of free time to write the next killer app! A friend of mine flies pretty much only one long haul return a week - two days work for 5 days off. Imagine what you could do with that time.

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

I am booked for another trial flight with ProSky (Also at YCAB) on Saturday @ 10h30. :)

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

Great to here Cralis going flying can never (almost never at least) be a bad thing I've never flown there but at worst it will give another 30 mins in the log book and a different perspective.

 

Adam

 

 

[Guest airsick]

And that total of 800 hours - would my 30 minutes count towards my 800 hours??

Not for a CPL. You can count 750 for ATPL but RAA hours don't count for CPL.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Not for a CPL. You can count 750 for ATPL but RAA hours don't count for CPL.

This has been a previous topic of debate here and has seen threads closed accordingly.

 

Personally I don't believe this is correct and I challenge you to prove otherwise!

 

Keeping in mind that there is a school in Melb that teaches in an RA J230 and then finishes off the CPL in a constant speed machine.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

This has been a previous topic of debate here and has seen threads closed accordingly. Personally I don't believe this is correct and I challenge you to prove otherwise!

What you believe is wrong so challenge accepted. :)

 

Read through the CARs and you will see that under aeronautical experience required for a CPL it clearly states the experience gained "must be flown in a registered aeroplane".

 

This is in contrast to the PPL requirements:

 

The 40 hours must be recognised flight time that was flown in a registered aeroplane, recognised aeroplane, helicopter, gyroplane, glider, power-assisted sailplane or group A ultralight.

 

This will no doubt raise further questions as to what is a registered aircraft. Suffice to say an RAA aircraft is not a registered aircraft. CASA considers the time logged in these aircraft as 'recognised flight time' but it still doesn't count.

 

I queried CASA on this some time ago (due to a thread here I think). I will try to dig out the response they gave me.

 

Keeping in mind that there is a school in Melb that teaches in an RA J230 and then finishes off the CPL in a constant speed machine.

Well technically the CPL they issue isn't valid. I am sure CASA probably doesn't care but it doesn't change the fact that it still wrong by the letter of the law.

 

I remember reading something about this in the last few days too but can't remember where which is driving me nuts. :hittinghead: If I find it I will post it here.

 

 

[Guest Macnoz]

When all else fails maybe read the instructions?

 

Below is a cut and paste from the current discussion document released by CASA re the proposed increase in RAA craft weight.

 

Colouring is by me:

 

5.3.2 As the regulations currently stand, a pilot may gain almost 100% of the hours

 

required to qualify for a private pilot licence (PPL) by recognition of aeronautical

 

experience gained in “Group A ultralight aeroplanes” (CAR 5.84). Of that 40 hours

 

minimum, only the 2 hours instrument flight time is not able to be gained in an

 

aeroplane administered by RA-Aus.

 

5.3.3 However, when it comes to the issue of a commercial pilot licence (CPL), CARs

 

5.111, 5.113. 5.114 and 5.115 do not allow any aeronautical experience gained in

 

“Group A ultralights” to be credited toward the CPL requirement, even though it meets

 

the definition of “recognised flight time” Also, there is an increasing chance that the

 

experience in “registered aeroplanes” or “recognised (i.e. foreign-registered or Defence

 

force) aeroplanes”, may in fact have been accumulated in identical aeroplanes because

 

of the number of designs that are now able to be registered either by RA-Aus or by

 

CASA. This anomaly is heightened by the fact that, because it includes ultralight

 

aeroplanes on its national register administered by the New Zealand Civil Aviation

 

Authority, hours flown in a New Zealand registered ultralight aeroplane count towards

 

an Australian CPL whilst hours flown in an RA-Aus registered aeroplane do not. This is

 

even more of an anomaly if the instructor giving the basic ab-initio training is qualified

 

(and increasingly this is becoming more likely) in the GA Flight Instructor system as

 

well as the RA-Aus system.

 

5.3.4 Currently, aeronautical experience gained in an RA-Aus registered aeroplane

 

may count for up to 750 of the 1500 hours of aeronautical experience required to qualify

 

for an Australian Air Transport (aeroplane) Pilot Licence. Additionally, an aeroplane

 

that is used for the pilot’s aeroplane flight review for all levels of licence can be

 

registered with RA-Aus – the only requirement being that the instructor conducting the

 

review must be qualified to conduct a flight review and also to be in command of an

 

RA-Aus aeroplane if this is the one used for the review.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Just remembered where I read it recently, the discussion paper on weight increases for aircraft administered under RAAOs - http://www.casa.gov.au/newrules/ops/download/DP0802os.pdf

 

Paragraph 5.3.3 states:

 

CARs 5.111, 5.113. 5.114 and 5.115 do not allow any aeronautical experience gained in “Group A ultralights” to be credited toward the CPL requirement

 

It then goes on to say that this is an anomaly given the possibility of counting NZ ultralight time or time in exactly the same aircraft but registered VH. As I said above, I don't think this is an issue policed by CASA but technically it shouldn't be done. Makes me wonder about accidents for those who have done this. I can just see an insurance company going after this little loophole to avoid a payout.

 

Personally though I think it is a smart way to do your CPL. Saves a hell of a lot of money.

 

EDIT: Macnoz beat me, damn...

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Anyway.. I'm thinking of doing my lessons...

 

I have a work meeting tomorrow (Friday) between 4 and 6pm. Usually, they have a few drinks afterwards. I have a trial flight/lesson at 10h30am the next morning. How much am I aloud to drink? i_dunno

 

 

[Guest Macnoz]

I really wonder if you are winding us up sometimes Cralis!

 

I swear I do

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Well, weve given out probably 5 cpl's this year where the majority of hours were done in RAA acft.. You can't count them towards the GST free 150 hour course but you can for the 200 hour course..

 

I trained some of them ab initio in the RAA jab..Later on they got twin endo's and so on..

 

We had a CASA guy in not long ago pooring through the books, making sure no-one was counting RAA hours for the 150 hour course...No problems..

 

cheers...

 

 

[Flyer]

Do you want to fly or drink ?...that's a choice only you can make....

 

Me personally, if I'm going to hop into a plane within 24 hours of drinking, I'd probably not go drinking....

 

Macnoz...be nice...;)

 

 

[Guest Bendorn]

Anyway.. I'm thinking of doing my lessons... I have a work meeting tomorrow (Friday) between 4 and 6pm. Usually, they have a few drinks afterwards. I have a trial flight/lesson at 10h30am the next morning. How much am I aloud to drink? i_dunno

8 hours between Bottle to Throttle if you're flying......Pilot that is.... If you're a pax... As much as you like!!!:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Personally I think that CASA article is poorly written. As there are no specific rules quoted, it's just in free speech and doesn't cover all aspects as Motzartmerv says as you indeed can count RAA towards CPL as stated, but not for the integrated course. For most people here who start in RA, this is most relevant as they are unlikely to be enrolled in a course if you're on here.

 

I also challenge the part where they say you can't do instrument time in an RA-Aus aircraft. I see nothing in the regulations that say otherwise. The aircraft does not need to be IFR equipped and only 1 hour is actually required to be flown in the actual aircraft versus the simulator.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Personally I think that CASA article is poorly written.

It might be but the CARs are pretty straight forward.

 

(1) ...a commercially trained person’s aeronautical experience must consist of at least 150 hours of flight time flown as a pilot during the person’s training course.

 

and

 

(2) For the purposes of subregulation (1), the 150 hours must be flown in a registered aeroplane and must include...

 

There is also a clear distinction between a registered aeroplane and a group a ultralight - the latter being an ultralight registered with RAA - and no mention of the ultralight hours in CAR 5.111. So to me it seems as though the regs are saying you need at least 150 hours and these can't be in an ultralight. If you do 200 hours then 50 of them can be. As I said, the article from CASA notes that it is non-sensical so I doubt it is enforced (the comments above suggest this also) but technically...

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

8 hours between Bottle to Throttle if you're flying......Pilot that is.... If you're a pax... As much as you like!!!:thumb_up:

Just in case the Q wasn't a wind up - 8 hours is the absolute minimum. The permitted alcohol level for for pilots is zero.

 

Personally I would have thought you wanted to be on top performance for your lesson unless you enjoy wasting money. And if you are obviously the worse for wear when you turned up to fly, I would expect the school to knock you back & charge you for the wasted slot.

 

Cheers (or perhaps not)

 

John