SKYFOX REBUILD

[Guest geoffb]

Would someone be able to give me an idea of what a Skyfox with a time expired engine and major reassembly and covering is worth to purchase. It has also been groundlooped. Thanks, Geoffb.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

If it helps I almost bought (my mate bought instead) a Fox with 1500 hours that was recently recovered from an incident for $20k. It was sold for $15k however they gave the deposit back as they thought better of accepting $15k.

 

Another mate bought recently a Gazelle with 500 hours, GA registered. It required a repaint and general tidy up with some new perspex and cost him $25k.

 

A few years back I bought a Gazelle for $28.5K with 1,000 hours.

 

With the 'on-condition' option now available for RA-Aus technically the engine can keep running and may not require a rebuild should the compressions still be acceptable.

 

 

[barandbrew]

Hi Rick

 

When did the run on condition come in must have missed it

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

On condition is not applicable if the aircraft is to be used for training....sorry

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I beg to differ.. we are running a gazelle on condition as we speak for training..

 

cheers

 

 

[Guest brentc]

'On Condition' came along about a year ago. It came up when the new Ops manager was shutting down aircraft in schools with time expired 2 stroke's (which he was entitled to do so). Trouble was that everyone 'knows' that a 582 etc will run for ages without a new crank, but the rules stated otherwise, so the rules were changed to align RA-Aus with GA practices to allow on-condition.

 

In GA, on-condition can't be used for Charter operations but can for flying training.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

In my opionion, should you'r "on condition" engine give birth and injure one of you'r students, (over Rotax recommended TBO I'm talking) I really doubt if.......

 

(a) it would even make it to court.

 

(b) RAA would even want to talk to you about it, and certainly wouldn't back you up on it.

 

© If it did make it to court, that you would even own a car to drive home in, and that you may possibly not own a home to go to.

 

Additionally I just sent a 80hp G/box to B Floods for a check after a prop strike (TT around 1600 hrs private use Gazzelle ) and it was junk. Cost over 2 grand to put back into service.

 

I do not have a prob with private individual running over TBO and I know a couple who do, however training is a whole different kettle of fish Jose !. And I'm assuming your insurance company knows all about this also ?......Think about it.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I don't make the rules, but i follow them.. These issues you should take up with the RAA..

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Sorry I was assuming your Gazelle was reg with RAA and I don't remember seeing anything in the ops manual about training with a timex engine being ok....silly me

 

 

[Guest brentc]

The mechanic must sign off the engine for on-condition operations. In the GA world there are many a LAME that aren't prepared to put their pen to paper for the reasons that you suggest. An on-condition engine is pretty much purely on his or her neck. The on-condition only came in recently so may not be in the previous ops manual.

 

The Gazelle gearbox is an interesting topic of conversation. I sent mine in for a tidy-up at 1,500 hours and it came back with a repair bill of only $250. One of the problems with them (the 912) is that if the engine is idled to slow the gearbox 'chatters' and does damage very quickly. I remember there were two Gazelle's at Point Cook and because of the large smooth taxiways, rather than wear out the brakes they were pulling right back on the throttles which did a lot of damage to the gearboxes.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes Brentc that'll surely do it. The one I mentioned has had a hard history, come from the bush, then city owners who just flew,flew,flew, oil changes uncertain. Just wanted to make the point that they are out there. I trust Wal without question and he said it was stuffed. Generally the Rotax gbox is one tough little unit, it's a bit of a pity they are lubed with the engine oil I suppose.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

That's why you need the good ole' Castrol GPS with the gearbox additive built in :thumb_up:

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes, i have to admit that chattering is a little un-nerving..

 

We have a new engine waiting at bert floods, its just up in the air at the moment as to who is going to buy the plane and when the new engine is going in..

 

While i may have an opinion as to the on condition thing, it isn't up to me, its up to the chieff and the club comittee. The engine checked out great, but if it so much as looks funny at me then i will be writing it up and she'll be grounded..

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Hey the 912 is a great little donk, and a great step up from some of the past engines we flew with, we are fortunate to have them. Most engines and most mechanical things for that matter, have an "achillies Heel" or the weak link in the chain. For example the Rotax 582 will eventially be let down by the water pump seals going, although I know of one which has 650 hrs TT and still has the original seals. The Rolls Royce Merlin needs almost pure glycol for coolant or it overheats very quickly.

 

I find it hard to come up with a definite "achilles Heel" on the 912 yet, although I suspect it will end up being one of the following long term. Either the top end valve train, the carbs/carb rubbers, or the solid state ignition boxes. The Sprague clutch can also be troublesome if the wrong lubricant is used and it becomes contaminated and fails to grab. Look forward to further imput on this topic. The piston/cylinders and bottom end tend to real robust, in true German fashion.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

The only probs we have had is with the exhaust...but i think(and i aint an engineer) its more to do with how its mounted in the gazelle...rather then the engine itself....

 

 

[geoffreywh]

shouldn't that be CO not CO2 ? I didn't think that you could smell CO2? Besides CO is deadly and CO2 is perfectly breathable.....

 

 

[Guest coaltrain]

Acually,

 

Both CO and CO2 (edit:CO2 odourless in low concentrations high concentrations has sharp acidic odour) are odourless and colourless. Other gasses and particulates in the exhaust provide the colour and odour. Whilst CO is very dangerous, Even CO2 is dangerous in so much as if it replaces the breathable atmosphere you are relying on, i.e. reduces the oxygen content to below an acceptable level, then you are in trouble.