Flying a long wing Jabi

[Guest Marius Grobler]

Hi there fellow aviators

 

I trained in a J160 and own a UL with a long wing (10m). As I got to 100 hrs I suddenly forgot how to land it in cross wind and I was also finding the cross wind take-off challenging. So, I got my instructor to go flying with me and his insight was REALLY very helpful (he has 17,000 hrs on everything to DC3).

 

Perhaps this message is old news to most of you but perhaps someone can take some benefit out of it:

 

1. Use the aelrons to keep you straight during the take-off run

 

2. In the the final: use your rudder to roll you straight and level

 

3. Be aggressive when the wind is aggressive. Do not hesitate to use full aeleron when you need to do it

 

4. The long wing gives you plenty of lift. Come in low and get your descent rate right...even if that means not getting the strip to "...stand up right..."

 

5. Use half flap. Full flap will get you down in the next town ;)

 

6. Come in a bit faster. Speed helps you

 

7. Use the rudder aggressively while the front wheel is still in the air...and use your aelerons to stay on the straight and narrow

 

8. Keep the nose down in the take off run until you van rotate. I have found that even slight pressure on the elevator gets you bumping all over the runway in no time flat

 

9. Use less power on final - compared to shorter wing aircraft

 

10. Descend quicker on base leg and try to be 300 ft AGL on final

 

11. Make your final run longer and use the time to gause your descent rate. Use power as needed to control descent rate

 

12. ATTITUDE - get your landing attitude on final and keep it there

 

As I say - old news to most of you but unfortunately not always communicated

 

Stay safe

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Some good stuff there, abut also some big nono's..

 

Why would you want to come in lower??

 

why would you want to turn final below 500 ft??

 

You only need to account for the xwind, not change the entire approach method.. Your approach angle should be the same regardless.. Only in a glide approach should the angle change..

 

Keep it crabbed into wind and kick straight before the flair and lower wing into wind..holding straight with rudder.. Nothing else should need to change. Except of course allwoing for wind on xwind and base legs, ie, if the winds up ur bum on final then start the turn onto final earlier, if its a headwind then delay the turn.And yes keeping the flaps away will help. But, keep it above 500, i can't see any benifit in coming in low and flat.

 

my 2 cents

 

 

[Ultralights]

weather its windy or not, approach angle should always be the same, only if there is a considerable headwind will the approach be a little steeper, as you wont be covering the ground as fast , so stay a little higher than usual. ( i try to keep all my approaches close as possible to/or glide approaches) with crosswinds, use less flap, i use the windsock as a guide, the more limp the sock is, the more flap, if the sock is horizontal, then no flap. also a little more speed will give more control. use aileron to counteract drift, and rudder to keep the nose pointed at the numbers. a good crosswind landing should be on the upwind wheel first, with little rudder needed to keep the nosewheel straight when it touches down. another little trick i use when crosswind is at the aircraft limits, is fly an approach from about 15 deg to the runway heading and land across the runway at that angle, it helps reduce the crosswind component, especially when putting a LSA down with 17 kts crosswind. but i didnt say that! oh, and you need a wide runway as well.

 

 

[Guest Marius Grobler]

Some good stuff there, abut also some big nono's..why would you want to turn final below 500 ft??

Yes, I agree. Sorry...my post was not correctly worded

 

 

[Guest Marius Grobler]

a good crosswind landing should be on the upwind wheel first, with little rudder needed to keep the nosewheel straight when it touches down.

Do I understand correctly that you tip the craft slightly into the wind so that the upwind wing is slightly dipped and that you therefore come down on the windward wheel?

 

 

[Ultralights]

yep, thats correct, with the wing down counteracting drift, then the rudder is only needed to ensure the nosewheel is straight, though it sounds easy in practice, it takes a bit to master the wing down crosswind method. about the only negative is that passengers unfamiliar with flying might find flying the approach with one wing lower is a bit unsettling.

 

the main reason the wing down method is preferred is it eliminates the sideways drift over the runway as you flare and touch down. resulting in less chance of undercarriage damage, tyre wear and that uncomfortable swerve back onto centreline.

 

basic theory behind it is, when you turn in normal flight, you use aileron, and the aircraft begins to turn, well, on final approach and landing, you use just enough aileron to create just enough of a turn to counteract the drift created by the crosswind, flare and landing will be normal, just the into wing will be a little lower, and you will touchdown on the upwind wheel first, then the aircraft will gently roll level and the downwind wheel will touch down, followed gently by the nosewheel. which, should be straight.

 

 

[Guest Marius Grobler]

Thanks. I'll grab Mike (CFI) to fly with me before I try it. He has been telling me about it but I was not paying enough attention. I guess one only learns from your mistakes in the end...

 

Thanks for the heads up

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Basically there are 2 types of approach you can use. The method ultralights explained involves lowering the wing into wind all the way down final and keeping straight with rudder. Holding that winward wing low through the flair.

 

Or, the method i prefer is to crab into wind on final and keep the wings level, just as you start the round out then kick straight and lower the wing into wind and keep straight with rudder.You still touchdown with one wheel first as in ultralights method. I prefer this method becasue holding a wing low all the way down final is basically sideslipping into wind. So your descent rate will increase due to the extra drag and you are in uncordiated flight at low altitude with a low IAS.

 

my 2 cents

 

 

[Guest Marius Grobler]

Makes good sense

 

I'll try both. The problem with the light planes is that they get blown away pretty damn quick. The GA fellas tell me that the wind does not bother them half as much

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

G'day Marius,

 

there are some good threads on the forum about cross wind landing - have a search and you'll find them.

 

As for technique - it's best to master one or other technique and to know that you can repeatably and reliably perform good crosswind landings. Then by all means try the "other" way. However during your training your instructors will probably have a preferred method and you should likely stick with it. Timing is everything with crosswinds.

 

I'm like Merv I prefer to crab down final and then lower the into wind wing as I kick straight. Others prefer a wing low approach. Neither is necessarily better than the other. Just make sure you can do one well.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Tomo]

check out this video for some cross wind landings............:thumb_up:

 

Crosswinds