Toe-in or Toe-out for tail draggers?

[Old Koreelah]

To improve ground handling and reduce the chances of losing control of my taildragger, I need informed advice re whether to toe in main wheels or toe them out. All I can find is conflicting recommendations. Any ideas?

 

Old Koreelah

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

i prefer toe out as it helps to keep the aircraft tracking straight and it is steering out of the turn

 

really depends on the type of gear spring steel oleo ect Do some homework here. the spring steel legs on the old condors ect were not interchangable due to the off centre drilling of the 3 mounting holes. they were set up for toe out and out side camber. put them on wrong and they groundlooped so easy and real mean for a little plane.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

For myself, on the Thrusters, I like everything dead neutral. No toe in (braking effect) or toe out (splays the undercarriage legs) and the wheels standing vertical when on the ground at flying weight.

 

Tony

 

 

[facthunter]

Toe out.

 

I feel a bit of toe-out gives a more stable reaction to weight transfer. (mainwheel to mainwheel, ie across ship). Nev..

 

 

[Tomo]

I wouldn't have a clue about a real life acft yet, but on my RC airplanes I like to make the wheels Toe-out, because it helps with ground handling a fair bit, mainly stops it from tipping forward on it's nose if it hits a lump or something when taxing/Landing,taking off etc... don't know if you'd experience that with a real life acft, but I assume would...just not as easily....!

 

Well thats my five cents worth, :big_grin::big_grin:

 

Cheers

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

No toe-in or toe-out

 

Been through this decision before, when building my BushCaddy. I aimed to have precisely parallel wheels, because with either toe-out or toe-in, the amount will change as the tail comes up on takeoff, or down on landing. It's this change that can alter handling, as well as suspension deflection occurring on bumps (otherwise known as bump steering on ground-based vehicles - not good on a rolling out tailwheeler!)

 

As a bonus, tyre wear is minimised if there is no sideways component. After hundreds of takeoffs/landings my original tyres show little wear, and no pilot has ever been disappointed in the way the BC handles.

 

Hope this helps!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

It really depends on the type of gear ,oleo vs spring steel legs ,type of surface being operated from. grass is more forgiving than sealed. then experience determines preference. other factors like how much weight, wingspan all play a part in how a taidragger tracks down the runway. i did a bit of revision today and in just about all books i have they all finally comes down to 'no matter how you set them up make sure they are both the same'. makes sense. As well as toe in/out camber whether positive or negative has to be considered as well. having experienced both toe in and out on the same taildragger i'd recommend toe out on that one.

 

Incorrect wheel alignment is the major cause of accidents during initial taxi and highspeed tests. it is also usually overlooked during 100hrlys.

 

find some TDs and grab a long straight edge and large square and compare a few setups.

 

Tomo i found a DVD at Airventure called "crasher3" an hour of RC prangs. some could be used as training aids in real plane groundschool. models behave exactly like the full size examples. a whole section on ground handling accidents. jets were best tho. flying naphalm bombs.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Tomo]

Tomo i found a DVD at Airventure called "crasher3" an hour of RC prangs. some could be used as training aids in real plane groundschool. models behave exactly like the full size examples. a whole section on ground handling accidents. jets were best tho. flying naphalm bombs.

ozzie

Sounds good....:thumb_up:

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Thanks for the advice, people. My D9 Jodel currently has Toe-in and is rather hard to handle, especially on tar. I will reverse the lower legs. Tony you may remember my struggles trying to tame your thruster on the ground. My feet are too far from my brain!

 

Regards,

 

Old Koreelah

 

 

[poteroo]

Having owned & operated a Cessna 170, a 180, and a 152 Texas Taildragger over a combined period of 24 years - I'm here to tell you that with these aircraft you need everything neutral at gross weight and correct tyre pressures.

 

The 152TD was a complete beast - you could see the wheels toed out - so when you wheeled it on in crosswinds....the aircraft tracked off to the side touching 1st, (upwind). On tarmac it quickly cutout the inside of each tyre. We finally did crunch a wing on a tree during a road landing - rebuilt it as a tricycle, and it flew sweetly ever after.

 

My LAME said the original installation was done incorrectly - allowing 'play', and so the legs splayed back when the aircraft was accelerated.

 

My C170 was just the sweetest taildragger - the 8.00 tyres made all the difference to it's directional control. The 180 was...well, all 180's are Clydes gift to airman...ie, incomparable!

 

If you are going to wheel land in crosswinds - be sure the wheels are neutral or you'll be going cross-country real fast!

 

happy days,

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

The kitfox-skyfox tail dragger has a pronounced toe-in and this was to have the aircraft tow easily when towed behind a car (no trailer) from the airfield to the home garage (with the wings folded of course) tail first. This toe-in of course made the aircraft a little skitish especially in cross wind conditions resulting in some interesting ground loop experiences for the unwary..