Hello from Adelaide

[Thx1137]

G'day Peoples,

 

My name is Steven and I am a student pilot at Aldinga flying a Sportstar. I started in March 2008 and I have 1.4 hours PIC flying now.

 

At 44 it has taken awhile but better late than never :-)

 

I hope to buy/share an aircraft sometime next year and somehow convince the missus to fly with me though it seems that is now going to happen. Ah well, maybe one of the daughters will learn to love flying so I don't just talk to myself!

 

Steven.

 

 

[facthunter]

Welcome.

 

Good to welcome you Steven. There does not seem to be a lot of wives who go flying with their husbands, so you are not alone there. I don't know why that is, but the safety (perceived) aspect of it seems to worry some of them. Work on it over time. Nev..

 

 

[Thx1137]

Thanks. :-)

 

It seems a lot of people are uncomfortable with flying in small planes. I can understand some element of fear but some times it seems to be a little something else too.

 

Ah well. As you say work on it over time :-)

 

Steven.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Steven, My wife won't fly with me either. I'm from Morphett Vale and started my tail wheel conversion with Martyn a few months back. Cash flow has prevented me from going any further but I just might bump into you down at Aldinga one day (as long as we're not flying at the time) Say Hi to Martyn and Gaylene for me. Safe flying mate.

[Guest Andys@coffs]

My wife doesnt fly with me either 2 reasons:-

 

1) She doesnt like it

 

2) If something were to happen our kids would be orphans, a much worse outcome than having a single parent.

 

The kids will both fly with me though, generally when they know that 6.5hrs in the plane or 19 in the car..... :thumb_up:

 

Andy

 

 

[lazerin]

Congrats on getting started, Steven. May I ask what made you decide to learn at Aldinga? I'm deciding between Parafield (Forsyth Aviation) and Aldinga. At the moment, Parafield is winning due to distance. I live just south of the city and I don't know if I can drive to Aldinga every second day.

 

 

[Thx1137]

I just might bump into you down at Aldinga one day

I am currently flying at around 2pm every Saturday at the moment, short, tubby, balding and usually wears black,Thats me :-).

 

It is good to have the daughters teeth paid off, now I have a bit more spare $$$ :-)

 

 

[Thx1137]

My wife doesnt fly with me either 2 reasons:-1) She doesnt like it

 

2) If something were to happen our kids would be orphans, a much worse outcome than having a single parent.

 

The kids will both fly with me though, generally when they know that 6.5hrs in the plane or 19 in the car..... :thumb_up:

 

Andy

That's understandable, sort of. I pointed out to my wife that we are at greater risk in the car so while I understand from an emotional perspective I am more ruled by the head than the heart :-)

 

The problem with RA is I can only take one other family member (when I get endorsed) so no family trips :-( I think I may go for the PPL at some point but not sure. Especially as the CTA endorsements will soon be possible!

 

 

[Thx1137]

Congrats on getting started, Steven. May I ask what made you decide to learn at Aldinga? I'm deciding between Parafield (Forsyth Aviation) and Aldinga. At the moment, Parafield is winning due to distance. I live just south of the city and I don't know if I can drive to Aldinga every second day.

I think Parafield is good in that you quickly get a variety of control zone experience, Aldinga is a nice strip but it is CTAF then class G all around up to 4500.

 

Aldinga is only 25 min away from me at Happy Valley and their prices were really good. $180 ph for 1 hour engine-on time in the Sportstar. Early on the breifings were 40 mins to 1 hour and were included in the $180, basically free.

 

Every second day?! It sounds like you are really goig to get into it!

 

 

[Deskpilot]

G'day Lazerin, Whilest Steven is correct re control zone experience, I think you would be better off going to Aldinga. It has to be faster going south at 80/100klm/hour than struggling with city traffic to go north. Time your lesson right, and you can use the Expressway in both directions at the weekends. Martyn, Gaylene, and daughter Bonney, are a great family and they run Adelaide Biplanes. The cafe' is great and generally a good meating place. The local scenery is by far better than north of the city. There is also the Aldinga Flying Club next door and they have regular BBQ's and comp's. So all in all, a nice, relaxed place to learn. Contolled zones can come later when you don't have to concentrate so much on your actual flying.

 

 

[Thx1137]

Yeah, flying around Aldinga is pretty and the guys up there are a good bunch :-) The instructor had my going slow at 500 feet along the coast a couple of weeks ago, damn it was nice! I guess he was wanting to see if I was still going to fly the plane when there was such nice scenery around. I was a good boy. :-)

 

I have been to the north of Adelaide about 3 times so am not terribly familiar those issues. A friend of mine preferred Parafield because it has the control zones but I must admit, I think it is nice to not have to worry too much about that right now!

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Scenery and control zones aside, the issue I would think most important, all things instructional being equal was the cost. Parafield comes with a whole set of costs that Aldinga or Gawler, or Murray bridge doesnt. (Murray Bridge may be just as close time wise as any of the other alternates, have you checked?) As such I suspect that at the end when you are handed your shiny new certificate the question you are likely to want to ask is, did the extra 20 through 100% of extra $ give me 20- 100% extra value. I seriously doubt that can be true...ever... the owners of parafield, who are looking for a commercial return on land that is premium space, almost guarentee that this question can never have a good outcome for you.

 

Andy

 

P.S dont missunderstand my post to suggest that I think Aldinga and or Gawler offers better or worse instruction and or Aircraft choices., I have only my own experiences at Gawler, compared to 15yrs ago experience at Parafield on which to call and as such simply dont know.

 

P.P.S Controlled Airspace and the changes around access are fantastic and useful for some within RAA, for the vast majority I suspect it will make little difference. In other words, control zones exist for a reason, and that reason should keep people out (as will the costs, cause it wont be free!) unless they have a real good reason to be there.

 

 

[lazerin]

Thank you all for your info and opinions! Sorry, Steven, didn't mean to derail your thread :S

 

Just when I thought I had decided on parafield...this has now given me a whole lot to think about. Traffic wise, I don't think it would be that bad going to parafield in the early morning. I haven't driven down to Aldinga in recent times, so perhaps I should try it and compare.

 

Andy, your statement about the extra cost has got me curious. My understanding was that the only extra cost incurred by learning RA-Aus at parafield is the Class II medical cert required. Please fill me in if this is incorrect.

 

If I do train at parafield in the Sportstar, are there any limitations to hiring and flying a sportstar at Aldinga in the future? Furthermore, what about hiring a different aircraft? e.g. Jabiru. I assume there would be some sort of training and checkride required to be certified for another aircraft of the same class?

 

 

[K-man]

I hope to buy/share an aircraft sometime next year and somehow convince the missus to fly with me though it seems that is now going to happen.

My wife flys and the only downside is that I only have half the fun. We take it in turns, go anywhere, support each other and have a great time.

 

My wife started first and I didn't start until she had her ppl. So you do it in reverse. When you get you certificate, shout her a couple of TIFs or perhaps go for a fly with her in the beautiful Waco they have at Aldinga. Then when you are both flying it will be much easier to convince her that you really do need a plane of your own for all those romantic weekends away!! ;)

 

As deskpilot said, the people at Aldinga are fantasic. We flew across to there some months back and at that stage we had an intermittant electrical fault. Everyone put in there two bobs worth and the problem was fixed. :big_grin:

 

The coffee and cake were fantastic too. :thumb_up:

 

 

[Thx1137]

No worries about the thread, there is no particular topic anyway :-)

 

I believe different clubs charge different prices and from what I have seen most charge for briefing time too whereas they don't at Aldinga. You need to be a bit careful about fees because things such as landing fees may not be included in the hire price. I know Aldingas prices are all inclusive.

 

Hmm. Touch and goes, is there a landing fee for each touch!?!?

 

 

[Thx1137]

She said to some of our tennis buddies I wasn't allowed to be an aircraft until I purchase a new TV. Well, the TV will be here during xmas :-)

 

Thats certainly different to the original: no way will I ever let you buy.... :-)

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Andy, your statement about the extra cost has got me curious. My understanding was that the only extra cost incurred by learning RA-Aus at parafield is the Class II medical cert required. Please fill me in if this is incorrect.

technically that may be correct, that is, other than the hrly fee the only thing you need to buy extra is that medical.

 

However, the Hrly rate that you are charged needs to provide the operator with:-

 

1) A profit margin, after all they are a commercial organisation.

 

2) The raw costs per hr for the aircraft, related work and fuel

 

3) All Airport charges, which includes, parking fees and movement fees, hangar and site lease costs for the organisation.

 

4) All charges relating to where you are and where youve been

 

Now charges 2-4 are not something you will be individually charged for, they simply form all or part of the cost base on which 1) is then applied and sold to you for $x per hr

 

I suspect if you were then to compare the costs per hr for the same or similar Aircraft at any or all of the other Airports/training organisations you will see a significant difference. Parafield, Murray Bridge and Aldinga will have a 1) component because they too are commercial organisations, the size of the organisation, the location and the number of staff is likely to mean that the %rates applied are different though. Gawler doesnt have a 1) component because its a club and the instructors arent paid for what they do. The 2) charges for Parafield will likely be the most expensive of the 3. While the sportstar is RAA registered I suspect it is maintained by a LAME because thats what they'll have access to however while it costs more, it should in theory be better than non LAME maintained Aircraft. Fuel costs and Aircraft per hr depreciation charges are likely to be different between everyone because of differnt training aircraft options and how far through uselful life they are.

 

I cant speak for Aldinga and Murray bridge regarding 3) but can tell you they are not insignificant at Parafield, and are almost non existant at GAwler once a member of the club, though that in itself is not without cost.

 

Costs related to 4) will be $0 for all but Parafield as there is no active control by a governemnt body that is looking to recover costs at those other AIrports. At Parafield, the customer (in this case the training organisation) gets to pay for the operating costs of the tower, its related infrastructure and human resources. If in training you go into Adelaide control space then there will be seperate charges relating to that activity. As said previously, unlikely as the student that you get to see these directly, rather they are just part of the training organisations cost base.

 

To put it all inot perspective, ring around and ask how much that training organisation charges :-

 

1) to brief on the ground. (ie Pre flight and post flight analysis work)

 

2) To fly, also ask is it elapsed time in the aircraft or Tacho time or airswitched time. The first starts when you get in, the second when you start the engine and the 3rd only when you exceed 25kts, which discounts taxi and preparation time starting the clock only as you roll for takeoff.

 

3) For 2) above also ask what the cost is when its just you in the Aircraft and the instructor is on the ground. For some organisations its no different and for others the 1 up rate is less than the 2 up rate.

 

4) Do not ask how long it will take (in hours). This question can only be honestly answered after the training concludes. As such the only cost that is relevant is the $ per hr. "Come in Spinner answers" of it'll only take you 20hrs and therefore 20hrs at $180 is much better than 40hrs at $100hr is just rubbish.

 

Lastly after training is done, how much to just hire the AIrcraft and go for a fly, how do you book it and how do you understand what times are available.

 

For Gawler (perhaps others can put their club/org info igf they know it for Aldinga and or Murray Bridge)

 

1) briefing pre and post flight cost nothing

 

2) was airswitch time but has recently reverted to Tacho time, logic being that engine running uses fuel and heats up. Tach time encourages only that needed to get to the runway and the warm up regeme needed.

 

3) No difference 1 up or 2 up as instructors dont cost anything

 

The costs for the Club Jabiru J160s are $125 per hr (there are 2 available) , the faster bigger J230 is $140hr. Ther is an online booking system, as well as a paper based book at teh club for those that are computer challenged. Without starting a religous war, A sportstar as a training aircraft is similar(ish) but because is an imported Aircraft has a > up front capital cost.

 

If we were for argument sakes to say that a person will take 30 hrs to be trained Gawler costs in a 160 would be around $3750, ALdinga $5400. Sporstar at Parafield, same as Aldinga, however there might be a $15 per day landing fee also?? wasnt real clear on the site I looked at.

 

For what its worth, all the gawler info and more can be found at the club website, though I acknowledge that Gawler is probably least suited to you from a travel time and cost perspective, but it does give you something to compare against. as well as identifyinmg teh membership costs which should be factored into the total cost comparison. Adelaide Soaring Club

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

There is no landing fee for ultralights at Parafield, certainly not a fee per touch and go!

 

Forsyth charges (and logs) tacho time.

 

The only extra cost is about $200 for the medical, compared to Aldinga. I would say Aldinga is more expensive as it is a long drive from here and your car doesn't run on water! ($16 return Greenwith it would be for me, in fuel alone)

 

Gawler does look good, but what about availability of instructors? Sources (mind you, not terribly objective ones) tell me this is a problem with many clubs compared to schools like Forsyth, Adelaide biplanes, MBLAFS, etc.

 

People make much more of GAAP and flying near control zones than there is to it. In your early training, your instructor takes care of that anyway and by the time you progress it just comes natural from experience. I actually like the extra pair of eyes looking after me. Gawler may not be GAAP, but you do operate in a small cut-out of the Edinburgh MIL, don't you?

 

That said, Andy, I'd love to come and fly up with your club at Gawler one day, probably after my training. I live in Greenwith so it is nice and close. I started at Forsyth before I realised you could train at Gawler, but I also do really like the big Sportstar with its low wings.

 

Cheers,

 

Bas.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Be aware that there are three flying schools at MB. MBLAFS and RPA (Recreational Pilots Academy was the original u/l school) and the GA school. I trained with RPA and still hire from them (hope to go tomorrow). They used to have a club and hire rates were $85 per hour. Unfortunately that didn't help to keep the school afloat so now it's back to $95 (I think) The only drawback there is it's a Jab school only whereas MBLAFS have a choice of about 5 different a/c. I don't know what their charges are.

 

 

[Thx1137]

G'day Bas, thats why I though Parafield having the control zones was a plus though really it shouldn't make any difference because as you say, the instructor is there to help!

 

Not wrong about the car fuel costs, that plus traveling time had a big impact on my decision which is the main reason I chose Aldinga!

 

 

[Thx1137]

$95!! Is that for a kite!? :-)

 

One I get my Pilot Certificate the Jabiru is the next one I want to get checked out on as it looks like the kind of machine I will buy at some point and a high wing would be interesting for a change. The old Sportstar is a little too expensive. :-(

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Unfortunately everything is a bit on the expensive side at Aldinga, but then they're all new aircraft. For $95 you get a rather old LSA55 at RPA/MB. I'm flying at 8.30 tomorrow. Hopefully the winds will have abated by then. I'll fly around the showers should they materialize. As they say in the flight sim Falcon4, "It's gonna be a busy day"

 

Over and out.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Did five hours cross-country yesterday with my 14 yr old daughter. Yes, Daddy hadn't flown for a couple of weeks (very windy), and he needed his hit !.

 

We landed at one small town, walked in and had a late brekky. One the way back after about 3.5 hrs in the saddle with some turb air, we landed again at the same place and had a nice rest for an hour or so under a nice shady tree. The last leg home was much nicer because we did that.

 

Dad was rested and the air cooler, and a bit smoother. She's happy to take the stick for a bit now if dads got something to do, and she know knows that the plane won't just flip over on it's back, if you take your hand off the stick for a bit. One of life's pleasures for me, and a real good bonding session with daughter. Not pushing her into it, or anything, but letting her know what it's all about. She very comfortable in the air, as she has flown with me a lot in the Drifter. If she shows an interest in learning, I'll find her a real good instructor.

 

 

[Thx1137]

That's awesome Ross, I hope I get to do that with mine :-) Getting the license is one thing, convincing them is quite another!

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Well, the winds didn't abate. Was still blowing at 9.0am but school owner James Hubbard decided to go see if it was safe for students, plus he was bored, so I went for a couple of circuits with him. There was a steady Xwind on runway 20 and he demonstrated a perfect, no flap landing, on one wheel, and kept it there for the length of the runway. Even though it was still blowing it was lovely and smooth in circuit. A couple of 'fighter' turns on the next circuit and a standard first stage of flap landing just to show me how badly I do it sometimes. Damm, he's good. I missed my slot so will probably go down again on Tuesday as we're in for some good weather. The weather front came through on my way home with a accompanying rain, albeit not enough to help the local farmers.

 

James tells me that his Lightwing will be back in the air within a couple of weeks so I might complete my tail dragger endorsement there. Oh, and BTW, prices have gone up to $100 ph hire & fly, still a lot cheaper than Aldinga.