minimum xcountry hours ?

[Adrian Lewer]

hi everyone just wanting to know what the minimum x country hours are for rec aircraft and what the average time to do the x country is ? I was under the impression the minimum hours where 5 ? Is this correct ?

 

Cheers

 

Adrian

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Correct. The minimum hours changed with the release of the latest ops manual. 10 hours is more realistic of what it would have actually taken you. The 5 hours was giving people false hope.

 

 

[Tomo]

It works a-bit on competency though doesn't it....? If you pick up X country fairly easily and are competent, you should be able to do it/get it, in my way of thinking anyway...

 

Just my 5cents worth...not sure if it's correct though.i_dunno

 

Cheers,

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes, its all competancy based.. so if you pick it up quickly, it will only take 10 hours.. you'd wanna be pretty good at it, and the big differance is people who practise at home and come prepaired..armchair navving is fun and good way to practise the skills..

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

If you already have your PAX, could you take someone along on you navs? That would make it hardly different from taking a friend for that $300 hamburger...

 

 

[Guest Macnoz]

and of course if by chance the friend was a pilot or otherwise experienced in navigation you would'nt even ask him or her for help!

 

I think the word SOLO in the syllabus for cross country endorsement is there for a reason?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

If I read correctly, with PPL you may take passengers after your GFPT, including on "solo" nav exercises.

 

Just wondering if I am right about that and if the same applies to RA-Aus.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

When studying for PPL you can't take a passenger. CAR 5.72 deals with this:

 

May an instructor permit a student to carry passengers while flying as pilot in command?

 

(1) An authorised flight instructor must not permit a student pilot to fly as pilot in command of an aircraft in which a passenger is carried.

 

(2) An offence against subregulation (1) is an offence of strict liability.

 

(3) It is a defence to a prosecution under subregulation (1) if:

 

(a) the flight takes place solely within the student pilot area limit;

 

and

 

(b) the student pilot has passed a general flying progress flight test, and a basic aeronautical knowledge examination, for aircraft of the category used for the flight.

 

So for a nav exercise which by its very nature goes outside of the student pilot area limit you can't take a passenger.

 

There are exceptions to this in 5.73 which apply to other student pilots but they aren't applicable to most PPL students.

 

Not sure about the rules for RAA but have always assumed (I know, don't assume anything...) them to be the same as the PPL.

 

 

[Guest Macnoz]

As I always say when all else fails read the instruction manual! Solo navigation of 2hrs is clearly stated as a competency requirement for cross country endorsement in the RAA syllabus.

 

Solo = +/-

 

Alone

 

Unaccompanied

 

On your own

 

By your self

 

Singly

 

Solitary

 

And no one else

 

Without help

 

By yourself

 

Unaided

 

Single handedly

 

Lone

 

 

[facthunter]

Logic

 

It would seem incongruous to be permitted to do an operation (ie. carry a passenger )when you are in the process of acquiring the qualification to do JUST THAT!... Nev.

 

 

[Admin]

Would the simple answer be that you become a "student" and no longer flying under your licence/certificate privelidges once you travel further then the allowable distance from your departure that your licence/certificate allows you to and thus, you are not allowed to carry a passenger:

 

RAAus - 25miles

 

PPL - 15miles

 

Your xcountry nav would require you to be flying further from the strip then this so it means that you are training - wouldn't this be correct and a way to look at it?

 

 

[facthunter]

Response.

 

I don't set myself up as an expert here but the way I see it, Till you have the X-C endorsement, you can't go more than 25 miles from your departure aerodrome, even solo, UNLESS you are doing the solo X-country exercise. This would have to be a properly authorised operation, planned and approved by the training organisation.. Ie there should be no doubt of the documentation/preparation in the event that there was an incident. Nev..

 

 

[ab0767]

This one came up earlier on in the year and I asked Mick Poole to clarify and Ian is correct. Whilst under instruction (studying) you are a student and CAR 5.72 applies. It's a lonely path to get your Nav but well worth it.

 

 

[ahlocks]

Yeah, been there done that with the solo xcountry bit.

 

Just do it on your own and get it over and done with. It's not worth the hassle to argue over.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

i agree solo is solo... i am not sure if i agree with the 10 hours though. i have the ground theory under control but time will tell, maybe there is something i missed but as i said time will tell...

 

motzartmerv, as for armchair nav'n i'v been everywhere man, i'v been everywhere man, i'v been everywhere man, and i think i can safely say we all have.....

 

 

on a serious note though, flight planning i have down pat, i have made the most of the 25Nm radius and done my own nav x within these boundaries (have 2 airports within reach and 1 3 miles short) and this has been invaluable for me. i fly out to the short one and am on my land marks all the way, then from the short one back to geelong, then to bacchus marsh.... easy...

 

but i will admit something here. before i left on my epic adventure i had the GPS turned on and had the home airport set in so if i got lost all i had to do was hit the home button but was never needed, having said that the whole time i was flying i had a sphincter factor of 9.5, it was realy mind-blowing to be in the air, still realy wet behind the ears and telling myself, if you get lost you are screwed..... where would you land now if the fan stopped, Oh crap why is avalon airport looki'n so close ECT. but i found all my calc's where correct and my KEY is to always know where you are on the map at any one time.....

 

anyway i do my first NAV X on friday, already know where i am going for the first one but he will not give me a heads up on the rest which i am glad about..