AVIATION AND MOTORCYCLES

[Oscar]

No wuckers Oscar. Caring, sharing & bonding is what this Forum is all about, and it's great to see you back from the dark-side, even if only perhaps for a short time.

Captain, I don't buy for a minute that you really have trouble understanding me - your vocabulary is no less comprehensive than mine. Seems we have some similar background (though I decided I just wasn't quick enough to race motorcycles and knew I'd break something trying to be competitive, though a couple of club racer mates of mine reckoned I'd be ok on 250's as long as I didn't try to mix it with the real guys, but I think they were being polite). You and I could have shared a table on a pub run or worked together in the pits and I know you wouldn't have blinked an eye at my language, and I both write and speak in the same terms.

 

Motorcyclists, in the main (though I would have real trouble with the current crop of 1-percenters whereas I had no problems at all 35 years ago, up to and including Ball Bearing) are the most homogenous group of disparate individuals I've ever had the pleasure of being with, I do miss things like waking up very wasted at the Alpine Rally and having to sit the XL over the coals of the fire to get it to kick-over in the frost.. There's no class distinction crap, (well, other than perhaps some of the Bimmer mob - remember the old joke about 'how do you recognise when a BMW rider's girlfriend is on her second date - they have matching leathers..?) We all bleed the same colour when we lay it down. I never had to 'dumb-down' my language or even think about things like 'I wonder what the background of this bloke sitting next to me is so I can talk to him'. Never happened, nor did anybody, ever, get up and walk out of a conversation. I watched Hailwood at Amaroo on his comeback ride to racing at the Castrol 6-hour of '76, sitting between a group of Rebels and Angels and swapping joints and beer for (seriously alternative-pharmaceutical-altered) schazlicks off our hibachi; no language problems or 'cultural' tensions there, I can assure you.

 

So why, I ask you in all seriousness, why do you feel I need to 'dumb-down' to a supposed level in exchanges with fellow aviators? Do you really believe we are all of necessity at the intellectual level of early secondary-school children? Your conversations here say to me that you don't. Could it be that you are feeling over-protective of the FNQ member of the Board? Have you fallen for the cult of personality of the 'good 'ol Boy' routine?

 

Let me tell you a wee story about the 'good 'ol Boy routine'. Leaving aside obvious fakes such as Alan Jones et al., one of the major players of the 'good 'ol Boy' routine is without doubt Bob Katter. Akubra, simple speaking, all that jazz. Son of Bob Katter, also a Federal Parliamentarian. I appeared before the House of Representatives Standing Committee on Road Safety as a private witness in, oh, somewhere around 1975 or thereabouts arguing for support for Advanced Driver training as a mechanism for reducing road accidents and medical trauma resulting from them. Bob Katter Snr. was one of the members of that Committee. 'Good 'ol Boy'? - he was as sharp as a bloody razor and his language was far more than a match for mine; look at his background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Katter,_Sr. Bob Jnr. is no less sharp, despite the facade he adopts - he's playing to the gallery in his 'public' persona. I don't agree with all of his political stances, but I am damn sure we'd enjoy a couple of glasses of red and a decent meal together. We'd probably choose the same background music, and it wouldn't be a Hat Act from Nashville.

 

What do we, as a group, stand to gain in acceptance of Recreational Aviation by setting the bar at 'simple, down-home folk' or somesuch? Do you think that local Councils will hesitate to close down regional airfields because we are perceived as just a group of likeable, simple folk and therefore deserving of their support? That's going to be a big ask when we fly aircraft that the general public thinks are very, very expensive toys. Chewing tobacco, spitting and calling people who use words with more than six letters 'wankers' is NOT going to change that image. Nor is taking on, unbidden by the vast majority (little pun there, you'll catch it I'm sure) of RAA members the role of 'spokesman' for the RAA and expressing personal opinions that are not RAA policy as if they were.

 

You've decried the existence of 'self-appointed representatives' - yet the one Board member who is adopting that exact position on the basis of the support of 67 of more than 9,5000 members of RAA appears to have escaped your wrath. 12 of 13 Board members are quietly getting on with the business of pulling RAA out of the excrement it threw itself into while one has run his flag up the Maypole for his personal agenda. If you want to pull on the 'I'm here with Stupid' T-shirt - well fair enough, you're perfectly entitled. I'm not going to be the person who says that isn't acceptable. So - how about we declare a truce here, and argue our relative positions without recourse to personal abuse? At least that way we can debate the issue without spoiling the quiet afternoon drinks of the rest of the forum community while we scrap out the back of the shed?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

 

[Oscar]

Occy, 

 

I see that you added a bit to your post # 270 and respond as follows:

 

 

 

I was one of the 5000 in that ride, although down the back with the unedumacated ones. My mates and I were supporting the principle of the issues, not our self appointed representatives and we buggered off as soon as the speeches and self promotion kicked off.

 

 

 

Having seen him ride quite often, Graham C was, and still is, at the right hand of God when it comes to road racing. He was at the Island Classic last year, I think to promote his book, and I was able to say g'day. Thought that he might come back and ride with the NZ team this year, but no such luck.

 

 

 

I have been over to most of the NZ Street Races. Well worth it.

 

 

 

Now, all of this agreement and conviviality is making me dry reach. So let's get back to bluing.

 

 

 

Regards Geoff

Captain - do you remember how we split across the bridges at Anzac Parade?? That was where we became two 5k streams instead of the one 14-kilometer long 10k column. Do you remember which bridge you crossed? If it was Commonwealth Avenue, you were one of my 5k mates! If it was King's Avenue, then it was following the other two of the three of us that organised the whole damn thing.. I was on a blue Honda 400/4, blue leather jacket, yellow helmet. Do you remember at the campsite, a Harley with sidecar riding through the campers, with a wide-eyed 3YO kid in it - that was my older son. Trucker from the Albury Chapter was the rider; we just left it up to them to look after the wee kid, we knew we could trust them absolutely. My son was on the MRA ute for the ride. If you were in the stream leaving the campsite on the Sunday afternoon, he was the kid lying on the ground asleep that everybody split around and didn't ride over. Big people in leathers looked after him the whole weekend, his mother and I had absolute confidence in everybody there.

 

You would know damn well that there was no 'order' for the ride, it was just where you ended up on the road outside Air Disaster Memorial forest when we set out, so don't come the 'class' bullshit with me, sunshine, I know the truth. If you were late in the line, it was because you didn't get your shit together early on Sunday. You're trying to gain credibility for a 'class distinction' that never happened. To claim some sort of minority status you have to have a complex that is clinically abnormal.

 

There were no 'speeches and self-promotion', as you know full well - the only 'speech' was by Milton Morris, and if you remember, that was carried over the loudspeaker of a 'General Duties' police car because the MRA system had failed. Cuz was the guy who told the crowd to shut up and let him speak; he was also the guy who told his lieutenant - Trucker -to take my son on their ride through the campsite. Don't give me grief for being an elitist - you believed that the cause we shared was worth your time, we made that work. Damian Cognodotto looked after my son in the ute on the ride. The whole damn campsite looked after him that weekend. If the general feeling was that you were being led by wankers, that would not have happened.

 

I consider having been a part of the team that made that weekend happen, is a personal best. The next was entombing the Unknown Australian Soldier, and the experience of organising the 10K bike ride on Canberra helped make that also a success. Care to share what you have accomplished that qualifies as progressing anything?

 

Between ourselves privately, the term you were looking for is ' dry retch'. Probably a finger error on your part - I have them also.

 

Cheers, Oscar.

 

 

[pmccarthy]

You blokes should work on a Two Ronnie's act or co- author a book.

 

 

[facthunter]

A Dry Retch is a poor bugga without a beer and I'm here with (a) stupid "Tee" shirt could be me.. Someone should take governments to task for those lethal wire barriers that are along the edge of highways. The manufacturers provide guards with them that make them more motorcycle safe but "WE" don't fit them.. Willfull negligence surely.

 

My first bike ( 1950) was a 1927 Waratah ( Just like Wayne Gardner has ) with about 85 since and ALL My kids and my wife ride bikes. Could write a book there but won't bore you . I'm taking the Indian from South to North in August, (the same one that I went Perth Sydney a few years ago (1918 model Powerplus Single but I will probably build and fit a twin engine to it this time ( the more common powerplant). I have worked on them all those years mainly specialising in the balancing and building roller bearing big ends, but all the rest when the need arises.. I built some of my first engines in the workshops of the RNAC on the side briefly but then got a job with an Engine reconditioning shop at Newcastle, that kept me out of the poorhouse while I did the Matric and Teacher's College.. Cheers in good riding. In the early days a lot of good riders were pilots and visa versa. Perhaps a bit of madness is required for both but they are NOT boring. Nev

 

 

[Oscar]

.. Someone should take governments to task for those lethal wire barriers that are along the edge of highways. Nev

So I'm not the only one who feels like a Camembert faced with a wirecutter? Nice to know I'm not paranoid.. First ride a Beeza Bantam, next one a Suzuki Hustler - guess which one I nearly put into a brick wall?

 

Cheers, Oscar.

 

 

[Bandit12]

If it was the Bantam, you were probably pretty safe

 

 

[nomadpete]

Not a bad thread - seems to have been popping up for years!

 

Just re-registered my Yamaha XV1100 (she who must be obeyed calls it the Viagra)

 

I've always said that riding helps me to fly co-ordinated when I get to the field. (and she fell for that line)

 

Just to add to the concept, I find bikes and planes go well together (so I keep telling her) and also that Glider pilots often have sailing in their lives......

 

So these groups are usually cash deprived but have a great time keeping that way!!!

 

Peter

 

 

[Powerin]

I wonder what the record is for the maximum time taken to resurrect old threads here?

 

And I'm with Oscar...I nearly sprayed red wine and Stilton all over my keyboard when The Rat claimed unintelligentsia status

 

 

[Oscar]

If it was the Bantam, you were probably pretty safe

Hell, if it'd been the Bantam, I'd have had time to run ahead and draw a target on it!

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I wonder what the record is for the maximum time taken to resurrect old threads here?And I'm with Oscar...I nearly sprayed red wine and Stilton all over my keyboard when The Rat claimed unintelligentsia status

I dunno, enough/some Red and unintelligentsia is a guaranteed outcome..... but Geoff must have had tongue firmly in cheek because I know for a fact that in his case any periods of unintelligentsia is firmly passing before he rejoins the rest of us who I would guess if able to be measured as a group would buck the wider 100 IQ average upwards.

 

I'm not claiming Mensa status for the whole of us, but fiscal realities around aviation, in fact any "big boys toys" pastime, probably in general, work to keep the average higher than might be the case in the wider community.

 

Andy....

 

OBtW GT550 for a few years for me was my primary ride.......love that shaft drive (NTTIAWWT)

 

 

[skeptic36]

Hell, if it'd been the Bantam, I'd have had time to run ahead and draw a target on it!

Don't you mean "Satans Residence, if I had been astride the Gallus gallus domesticus I would certainly have had enough time between when impact became inevitable and actual impact to dismount, rapidly stride ahead and draw some freehand circles on the wall in a disorganized representation of a target, then hasten back to Gallus Gallus domesticus remount and prepare for the above mentioned inevitable impact!

 

 

[Captain]

I'm taking the Indian from South to North in August, (the same one that I went Perth Sydney a few years ago (1918 model Powerplus Single but I will probably build and fit a twin engine to it this time ( the more common powerplant).

Nev,

 

 

 

Keep us posted on this South to North trip of yours and what will be the route and timing.

 

 

 

And I second you all about those bloody cheese-grater wire barriers. That would have to be the worst & most inappropriate bit of industrial design for motorcycles.

 

 

[facthunter]

It's a mix of cars and bikes (all 1918 or earlier) similar to the Perth Sydney a few years ago. That one was for the Breast and Prostate cancer cause. I will put some details up. We usually end up with some overseas entrants, but in any case the entries closed very quickly some time ago. It's about end August starting at the Birdwood Museum. Love to meet people on the way. The itinerary will be available. Give me a little time We have bushfires around this area for a while now I fear.

 

PS. Those Barriers are criminal .The designers make an additional cover for motorcycles. but our people don't bother to add them Nev

 

 

[Phil Perry]

A rough straw poll at our airfield recently revealed that there was only ONE pilot who had NOT owned a motorcycle at some time or other, but that SHE was thinking about getting a bike of some sort to make getting to work a thru the traffic a lot easier ! ! !!

 

Phil

 

( Honda CX500 shaft drive - Honda VFR750 - Triumph Bonnevile 750* [ *Co-owned with my Brother ]

 

 

[gardcycl]

Many that I know who are flying have at one time or are presently into motorcycles.I know that I am.

 

I wonder how many of forum members fit this profile?

 

Care to comment?

 

Regards Geoff

 

R1150 GS Adventure ............. but sold a CB1300F to fund the J

It appears that nearly every Aviator is a Motorcyclist Geoff, or Vise Versa, I started out at approx. 10 on old Royal Enfield two strokes and quickly progressed to Matchy's for 5 quid, raced TZ's in the mid 70's

 

but found more financial reward in Harley sales, took to Aviation about the early 80,s and just find I spend all the finances I found along the way.... But fun, still have several English bikes and some tractors (HD's)

 

 

[M61A1]

The first bike I purchased with my own money was an old Honda MT250, then a YZ125E, Maico 250 (coffin tank), PE250T, a Yamaha Jog scooter, RD250LC, Ducati Pantah 500, '86 GSXR750, Honda 400/4, 750/4, CB100, CB100 with a Bert Kingston 125 big bore kit, Honda VF750 (worst bike ever), 650 Katana and an XR500. I currently have a 92 YZ250, an 86 GSXR 750 and an 1100 of the same model.

 

As for the cheese grater fencing, I use the same approach as for Subaru Forresters and Hyundai Excels, do not let it come into contact with you, no matter how hard it tries.,

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

...I second you all about those bloody cheese-grater wire barriers. That would have to be the worst & most inappropriate bit of industrial design for motorcycles.

So true. Wire barriers have made big safety improvements for larger vehicles, but this is one case where the voice of motorcyclists should have been heard.

 

 

[turboplanner]

And I second you all about those bloody cheese-grater wire barriers. That would have to be the worst & most inappropriate bit of industrial design for motorcycles.

I was involved in a safety discussion on these, and solved the problem totally by recommending a ban on all road going motor bikes on the grounds of discrimination against motorists who have to pay around $18,000 for collapsible steering, abs, traction control side intrusion bars, air bags, progressive crumple rate and derailing engine mounts etc.

 

After the fight we got on to the subject of wire barriers, and the cheese grater effect didn't come up, but there was discussion on how much better they are than W section Armco (my father in law held a dying bike rider in his arms as he dies on the Tullamarine freeway after being extruded between the ground and the W section.) Some of these people, from all round the world were professionals in the safety industry manufacturing equipment such as safety fences, or setting standards for motor vehicles.

 

Surprisingly the cheesegrater thing didn't come up and to some extent that didn't surprise me because these barriers are designed to flex a lot more than I thought (vaguely I remember a four metre performance defelection for motor vehicles). and most of the impacts are at more than 45 degrees.

 

There was considerable discussion about incorrect mounting and specifications losing a lot of the benefit.

 

These barriers are fitted adjacent to big fat gum trees, so cheese grater or not, you still may be better of.

 

One discussion got going about "frangible barriers" which we use in Australia in the form of Melaleucas but this got the thumbs down on the grounds of not retarding the vehicle from crossing into oncoming traffic.

 

Gets interesting when you are asked to come up with something better and cost effective for a one thousand kilometre highway.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Wasn't it Damian Incognito who coined the phrase "cheese cutters'?

 

 

[M61A1]

These barriers are fitted adjacent to big fat gum trees, so cheese grater or not, you still may be better of.

Gets interesting when you are asked to come up with something better and cost effective for a one thousand kilometre highway.

1. It's hard to be any worse off than separated into several pieces. Emergency services have often noted this effect.

2. Sometimes no barrier at all is the best thing, and it's cheap.

 

I think sometimes the govt gets too busy trying to solve problems that aren't really a problem.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

hay bales! 107 years of the IOMTT has proven their effectiveness

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

well if we are going to go by IOMTT as the bar then clearly we need lots of loose rock fences with energy absorbent lichens that were put together some century's ago...... Im not sure Id call hay bales durable either...some of the pyromaniacs would just use them as giant fire starters....

 

 

[M61A1]

well if we are going to go by IOMTT as the bar then clearly we need lots of loose rock fences with energy absorbent lichens that were put together some century's ago...... Im not sure Id call hay bales durable either...some of the pyromaniacs would just use them as giant fire starters....

Around here, the "horse people" would steal them before they got a chance to rot or be set on fire.

 

 

[Bandit12]

Around here, the "horse people" would steal them before they got a chance to rot or be set on fire.

Yep, the price of good lucerne in SEQld at the moment makes aviation look cheap.