GA - RA Conversion (Kind of)

[shags_j]

Hey all,

 

Thought I would share my views on change over from flying in a controlled airspace to a non-controlled space.

 

I have done 15 hours at archerfield including about 1 hour solo. On saturday did my first lesson at Caboolture. This was a bit of an eye opener in two ways:

 

AIRFIELD:

 

I never realised how much I relied on the tower. While you still kept a lookout for other traffic and in the circuit you would make sure you had sight of everyone else around you don't realise how much the tower does. It's actually a little nervewracking for the first few minutes (not to mention that radio calls are a little bit more involved).

 

I believe my airmanship will be vastly improved by flying here.

 

AIRCRAFT:

 

Admittedly it's been 3 months since my last flight but I flew like crap. The Jab controls take a little bit of getting used to (don't see the advantages of the control system personally) but even after that I was having troubles with the level of rudder controls required. I think the 172 teaches you "lazy" flying. Hopefully next lesson will see a few solo circuits and I won't be so aggravated with myself.

 

Anyways, just a few thoughts on the differences.

 

Cheers,

 

Shags

 

I might add it was hilarious seeing a little gyro taxiing.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Thats interesting shags.. Never thought about it like that, going CTA to ctaf i mean.. Your right, i reckon it would seem a little daunting..

 

What model Jab are you flying?

 

 

[shags_j]

Jabiru 160.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

good stuff.. yea, in the 160 you will notice theres 2 pedals on the floor..hehe..

 

seems to be lots of guys training at caloundra/ caboolture.. its good to see... awesome country up that way to..

 

 

[shags_j]

Gorgeous terrain. I could have stayed up there watching all day. It really is spectacular terrain. Can't wait for my license to just go up and enjoy the flight.

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Shags, did my paperwork help? :)

 

Is the Jab harder to fly than most of the training aircraft? I had my first TIF in a J170, and .. yes, it was the first time I got to hold the stick and peddels, but I found when I turned, I was all out of balance, and wasn't sure (at the time) how to correct it.

 

I then did a TIF in a Tecnam Echo, and found it much easier. Not much rudder was required on a turn compared to the Jab.

 

So it's interesting what you say. Does the Jab require more rudder, and more demanding to fly?

 

 

[shags_j]

I think it's more demanding than most GA aircraft (i've flown cherokee and c172 and tommohawks). But I think it really does teach you to be a good pilot. You really do need to work the ruders. But this can be a positive thing also as I believe it will lead to more finite control over the aircraft. I was working it ok by the time I landed. While my landing was a bit hard I was fairly happy with the approach.

 

I'm a larger chap (110kg atm but dropping) so my choice of LSA is somewhat limited. Once I drop a few kg I might try out some of the other LSA's.

 

Oh and paperwork was great thanks. Would have been lost without the radio calls.

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

118kgs here. :(

 

Basically flying on fumes!

 

My wife has hatched a plan to get me to 98kgs by May. I think she's smoking somethign a bit too strong... but we'll see. :) Losing 20kgs... that's like.... a LEG! :)

 

(I type this as a drink my Pepsi Max at my desk... mmm...)

 

 

[shags_j]

Yeah I'm on a mission to 79kg... My mum and GF are gangin up on me. After the loooonnngggg take off on saturday I was motivated as well.

 

 

[ckaine]

Hi Shags

 

Notice that you've just had your first flight in a J160.

 

Going back to my post from last week regarding whether my father should train in the J160 or a C172 i'd be really interested to hear your thoughts, now that you have flown both.

 

He's trying to weigh up whether he'll need more hours in the Jabiru to become competent compared to the C172 as this may offset the extra cost of the 172 if less hours will likely be required to become competent.

 

Cheers,

 

Chris

 

 

[shags_j]

Hard to say from the other way round. IT took me probably the whole hour to get used to the controls. Keep in mind here I also haven't been up in anything for about 6 months.

 

The C172 is an easier plane to fly. I'm really not sure what sort of time frame it would take someone whose never flown before to get a grasp on the Jab aircraft sorry.

 

Like in my original post though, it really does teach you to fly "properly". I believe learning like this will increase my "airmanship" a lot more than the GA way. Having said that I am glad that I have done both.

 

(I know that I have not helped you in any way, my apologies ;) )

 

A damn good reason to go to a ctaf is that everyone is a damn sight more friendlier.

 

 

[Skyhog]

Hi ckaine,If you can fly a jab well you'd have no trouble in a 172.The jab is not hard to fly but is different than a lot of RAA aircraft.It may have a lot to do with the instructor.I went from scratch to solo in 5.2hrs in a jab and although it suprised me when the instructor hopped out he obviously thought I was ready.The thing about a 172 is I can take full fuel,my wife and 2 small kids and around 100kg of baggage at 110kts while some of the better jabs may acheive a similar speed you can't take much more than 2 pob and fuel.So as already stated earlier you are probably best to go the jab then change over later.

 

 

[BLA82]

My wife has hatched a plan to get me to 98kgs by May. I think she's smoking somethign a bit too strong... but we'll see. :) Losing 20kgs... that's like.... a LEG! :)(I type this as a drink my Pepsi Max at my desk... mmm...)

I think some samples must have been put in on of those girly mags lately as my wife seems to be smoking the same stuff:laugh:

 

I'm just on 100kg's thanks to the sales rep lifestyle, driving,talking,eating,driving,sleeping lol

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Skyhog... 4 people, full fuel and 100 kg's of baggage???....you sure about those numbers??

 

 

[Guest Macnoz]

I don’t know – I must have a different kind of Jab 160c

 

 

My one needs rudder / pedal on 4 occasions and 4 occasions only

 

 

1. On applying full power from a previously low power setting -- particularly on take off roll

 

2. On reducing power significantly--- particularly when setting up a glide approach from narrow base

 

3. On roll out after flare which probably is #2 above

 

4. If you want to slide slip etc

 

Other than that I don’t need to other than caress the pedals even in a steep turn

 

 

[IanR]

Skyhog... 4 people, full fuel and 100 kg's of baggage???....you sure about those numbers??

Lightest C172 I have flown is about 690kg empty with a MTOW of 1089 - it was an early P model. The smallest standard tanks are about 150 litres. Not sure of the weights on earlier ones. So with full fuel and 100kg baggage you would have about 180kgs or so for people - two small adults and two very small kids I guess !!

The newer ones weigh in at about 760-780kgs empty and depending on model are somewhere just over 1100kgs MTOW with 212 litres fuel from memory.

 

 

[shags_j]

C172P useful load = 927kg.

 

Macnoz: I really needed it on all occasions on the weekend. It just wouldn't do what I wanted it to. Like I said though once I got the hang of it I think I was right.

 

 

[Allan]

Might be mistaking 'lbs' for 'kgs'.

 

This from Flying Scotchman - Aircraft Information - N9584L

 

describing a Skyhawk C172P regd N9584L :

 

Maximum Weight

 

2400 LBS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Standard Empty Weight

 

1433 LBS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maximum Useful Load

 

974 LBS

 

 

 

 

 

 

Fuel Capacity:

 

 

 

 

 

Total

 

43 GAL

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm assuming that the quoted fuel capacity is in US gallons, hence 43g = 163 litres, or approx. 120kg ?

 

The quoted max useful of 974lbs = 442 kg

 

Less 120 for fuel, leaves 322kg. The example posted above says "100kg baggage", ie leaving 222 kg for POB.

 

 

[Skyhog]

Motzartmerv,Yes I am sure about those numbers.As I said in my post they are small children at 15 & 24kg.My wife is 50kg and I am 85 so they are the numbers.This will change in future of course and the baggage allowance will decrease.Also you can't just chuck 100kg in the baggage compartment,some needs to go on the floor of the back seat.

 

 

[shags_j]

There's room on teh floor of the backseat. The one I used to fly would be flat out fitting a small person yet alone person and bags.

 

I'm glad it's currently just me and my girl...

 

 

[Skyhog]

Shags I mean where an adults feet would go,the kids legs aren't that long yet.

 

 

[shags_j]

Good point.

 

I have my problems sorted. I'll just buy a Cirrus Vision when they come out (THE-JET BY CIRRUS) no problem.

 

All I have to do now is fix the lotto...

 

 

[Skyhog]

Put me down for one too Shags!!

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I had a good look at the Cirrus at Airventure. really nice aircraft. Basically very simple to fly. It performed every day and it is no slow poke. does really cool slow rolls and sounds like a jet should without being loud and annoying. price tag is up there. something for the grandkids. i doubt if i could keep up with either the aircraft or the repayments.:confused:

 

ozzie

 

 

[Guest Pop-top]

What are the major differences between the Cirrus Vision and the Cirrus SR22? are there loads?