VMC

[turboplanner]

Over the years I've read many reports of fatalities where "the pilot continued on into conditions which did not meet Visual Meterological Conditions", and I was sent into marginal conditions myself once as a result of a non standard code which was part of the Telex based planning tool provided by CASA's predecessors apparently when Biggles was active, but that's another story.

 

We've all been told never to fly into cloud because we'll lose control and die, and the technical reasons for this are well explained.

 

What it not as well explained are the pointers which would either keep you on the ground in the first place, or ensure you get out of there in plenty of time for an uneventful landing.

 

Would appreciate tips from our experienced pilots on how they stay safe in the face of variable weather reports and conditions which are not always easy for the occasional flier to identify.

 

 

[facthunter]

VMC?

 

I think that the reason that you haven't had a lot of response is that the subject is such a big one that you could fill a large book up on it. The quick answer is "awareness", and experience, but I have examples of very high hours pilots getting into trouble with weather so there are other factors at play. Just to add a personal note, after 48 years of flying and I hope a good attitude to risk management, can I give everyone a watertight assurance that I won't get into trouble with weather? NO, I'm afraid, because things can change quickly, ( Sea fog, dust, willy-willies etc.) A self-imposed urge to complete the flight is the most common cause of grief, hence the current emphasis on the Human Factors component.

 

There are a few good "rules" (which are techniques) out and about and they are based on a good working understanding of meteorology (in this country). ANY competant glider pilot would be familiar with this. Our current meteorological course content would be only basic . As an "airman" you should understand the medium that you fly in , as does a Sailor understand the Sea. Maybe I'm going too far back in the past here, but you get the idea. Nev..

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

My new Rule, look out the window Humm nice sunny day i will fly OR wow cloud Etc i will stay home. until i get more comfortable with judging WX

 

 

[BigPete]

Mate - you won't get much air time that way. There's nothing wrong wth a bit of cloud. :thumb_up: It's surprising what you can see when you're up there. ;) Flying around the rain is another skill to add to your flying.

 

Go up with your instructor when there's a strong chance of rain :thumb_up: He/She will know if its safe or not. It all comes down to experience - use theirs to have a safe and rewarding learning experience. :big_grin: That's what they're for.

 

regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[facthunter]

Local knowledge.

 

Adrian, the part of the world that you are flying in, ie Port Phillip bay and coastal southern Victoria, has some pretty changeable weather, which can catch the experienced too. The proximity of Bass Straight and the higher ground to the north, makes it an area to treat with respect. You don't have to be in an aeroplane to relate to the weather. When you are driving your car you can assess it's suitability for flying. I am always doing that and will often say to my wife,"wouldn't want to be up in this stuff today". The source of the airmass that the wind is bringing to you will determine its properties, the most important being water content, (Relative humidity).which relates to temperature as well. This will determine the cloud base. If the temperature rises the cloud base will rise, and if it drops then the base will lower, or you may get fog if the wind drops off. If the airmass is from the ocean (maritime) and the said ocean is warm (tropical) there can be a lot of moisture in the airmass and it can rain in buckets. (ask any southern QLD. person). Inland, where there are large areas of dry country, generally the cloud base remains higher. The cloud base is a good indicator of RH ,and visa-versa. Meteorology is a fascinating subject and extremely relevant to our sport for your surival. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Be careful relying on instructors, some of them may have very little experience. How often have you heard someone saying they are going for their certificate, then for an instructors rating. They may be good instructors and good pilots but nothing counts as much as experience with weather.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yenn is correct when he says "nothing counts as much as experience with weather"

 

Scenero : Experienced pilot leaves home after several checks of BOM weather. Very familiar with route, and expected weather that may be encountered. Todays looks possibly doubtfull, but pilot figures it's worth a look. In the past two years regular commute on this route, has cancelled wisely 4 times due weather, (without take off), and had to return to departure airport once, due impassable weather.

 

This day after about 20 mns flying, encounters same impassable weather, and correctly initiates a return to departure airport. During that time, spots a not -so -large blue hole above. Makes real bad decision #1 and climbs through hole after some unexpected effort, and gets on top of solid cloud, at a higher altitude than expected. Air on top is lovely, and of course the view of cloud tops is well, rareified. Pilot then makes real bad decision #2 and sets a GPS course for destination. About 30 mns later reaches 3/4 way point, over known position, with no holes in cloud visable in any direction, as hoped for. Pilot has talked to traffic enroute, which was landing at a known inland airport, and they have indicated broken cloud there, some 45 mns inland.

 

DECISION TIME !!..2 hours fuel, but only one hours daylight left, with inland airport about 45 mns away if all goes well (with possible tailwind). Calls pilot friend at original destination airport, and asks him if he can see any holes above destination . He reports none above destination, but some off the coast over water. Pilot cannot see holes off the coast.

 

Pilot now sweating slightly, and fully realizing the real stupid situation he's got into, spends 30 seconds deciding which is the best of two bad options. (Heading inland to alt airport, or over water looking for holes ) Whilst this is happening, a large round hole suddenly appears below, with familiar coastline visable through it. Pilot instantly reduces throttle to idle, and stuffs stick foward, exiting shortly thereafter, below cloud, in smooth clear air with destination in sight.

 

Folks, they call them 'sucker holes" for a reason.

 

Don't do it !!!!....it's a huge trap that can kill experienced, and beginners alike, very quickly.

 

Undeserved luck was with me that day, I should definitly have known better, but took the bait. But I can guarantee you, it will never, ever, happen to this aviator again !.

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

Good post Major, so what happened after you went through the hole?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Flew around for about five minutes just relaxing and getting my heartbeat back to normal, and then flew the 25 nm or so to my destination per normal, in clear conditions.. Have flown that route many times in the past two years, but that time just made some real bad decisions for some reason, and could easily have put it off till next day anyway. One does learn from those though. Remember I am not inst rated with no artifical horizon in aircraft. Cheers.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The excellent point here is that if an experienced pilot can be caught out what hope has a freshly licenced top gun got without some very careful case studies.

 

 

[Guest weekendwarrior]

Quick rule of thumb from my instructor: If the TAF is more than 3 lines long, it is possibly unsafe to fly VMC and very careful planning and analysis required. If more that 5 lines long there is no point trying, better pack and go back home. Seems pretty dumb at face-value but invariably proved to be correct...

 

 

[Guest 3rd dimension]

An old quote

 

"It is better to be on the ground wishing you were up there then up there wishing you were down there"

 

 

[Simonflyer]

Really liked your post MAJ., and i like the discussion in general..

 

Im currently studying the MET section of the CPL syllabus, and i have a whole new respect and love(a bit nerdy, but its bloody interesting) of the weather and the astounding processes that are going on in the troposphere..

 

I have surfed for years, and i just dont go out if the conditions look unsuitable for my skill level(intermediate at best), and that is with only the info i have in front of my eyes, and maybe some tide info...There are no official guidelines or rules governing if i go out, but i just make what i think are good safe judgements..

 

With flying, there is a huge array of information for me to get my hands on before i go up, and there are guidelines and regulations which are to ensure and improve my safety..The more i know about the weather, the more respect for it i have, and i am not interested in pushing my luck with it at all.

 

The longer i fly, and it is still very early days for me, i realise that us as pilots and our decision making really is the difference between being a safe Pilot in Command, and being just another maverick that could have a very short stint on earth..I just have to make sure that i continue to leave the Ego in the back seat everytime i fly..:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Lot of good points there simonfunky, flying around a bit of weather can be a good learning experience as you probabily have to do it one day, if you keep flying. You will be a bit more comfortable with it then, if you are familiar. There is some pleasure in making good decisions, and managing to deviate around some weather.

 

It is all about making decisions however, and you've got to know when to leave it in the hangar, or when to make an abrupt 180 and go home.........................

 

 

[Ultralights]

how many remeber their PRECAUTIONARY SEARCH AND LANDING LESSON?

 

if you find yourself trapped below cloud, with no way to a destination or alternative....

 

find a nice smooth paddock somewhere and get on the ground....

 

 

[Ben Longden]

Got it in one....:thumb_up:

 

Ben

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

yep my thought exactly find a paddock and go for it BUT I don't want to ever go up to the owner of the airplane and tell him the bad news about his up turned airplane/damaged Etc. I know its Insured Etc but not the point, its not mine so don't damage it. If you remember I borrowed someone's aircraft recently and unfortunately had to park it outside due to WX, I was not specifically told not to but all the same (not mine treat with respect)

 

I will however be slightly more adventurous when I have my own Aircraft and am responsible for the well being of it financially, not that I intend to break it but hey I will own it.

 

 

[Ultralights]

yes, aircraft damage is a consideration, but an aircraft can be replaced, you cannot. and if your prec search and landing goes well, there should be minimal chance of damage, thats the purpose of a precautionary SEARCH and landing.. fly around until you find a suitable "airstrip" you can use again to fly out of. golf courses are great for this, nice smooth manicured lawns.

 

 

Cessna 172 on the 9th hole.

 

 

[Barefootpilot]

How do you know what the weather is going to do? Well you don't! and today it happened to me but lucky I had a plan B.

 

I spent the day in the Hunter Valley with my passengers going off to the vinyards for a wine tour. A perfect day up in the Valley about 27' and almost sky's clear. I pick up the passengers off to newcastle to pick up a couple more and then back to Sydney Harbour to drop them all off. One of the pilots in sydney calls to say that its raining and poor vis in sydney, I look around at the clear skies that surround me (only 60 miles from sydney) and laugh so I set off. The cloud lowers and the rain starts as I head south, As I get towards the hawksbury river I'm down to 500' along the coast in about 6 km Vis all legal but getting worse so what do you do? Turn around? But I've got passengers on board that are on an international flight they have to get to sydney!! No pressure here!

 

Thats where plan B comes into action. I landed at palm beach put the passengers in hire cars. Then without passengers on board upgraded to IFR and headed back to Bankstown.

 

In recreational aircraft we don't have the option to go IFR but we do have the option of always have a plan B and even better a Plan C! Always make sure you have an option either being able to turn back to another airfield or a prec search and landing and remeber its all meant to be fun... if your not having fun then you probably should be there so get your XXXX on the ground!

 

Take care out there guys and remeber flying is meant to be fun!

 

Adam

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Adam, just sounds like the old days in the Whitsundays.

 

Landed once on the back fairway of a golf course in the Drifter (invited to, doubled as an airstrip), closest thing to landing on a billiard table I reckon.........................

 

 

[turboplanner]

VMC Cloud separation - Class G Airspace bekow 3000' AMSL

 

This post comes out of the thread entitled "Cowboy Up and Inland" by Bigglesworth, which not only is a very interesting thread, but provides some good learning material.

 

Out of that discussion came some confusion over that exactly is the reqirement for cloud separation at low level.

 

I wrote to Aviation Theory Centre around December 18 querying their version of the VMC regulation which was in conflict with other posts.

 

To date there has been no reply, so I raised the issue with CASA yesterday as part of another query.

 

Firstly, there are two competing VFG's:

 

(a) VFG Visual Flight Guide, 2008 Edition by Aviation Theory

 

Centre

 

The Preface says: "The first edition of the VFG was

 

developed by ATC at the request of CASA.

 

(b) Visual Flight Rules Guide Version 2 July 2007

 

by CASA

 

Why CASA would request this when they had a perfectly good book of their own is a bit mysterious.

 

After reading the two books it's even more confusing since while they sometimes cover the same ground they sometimes go off in different directions.

 

The conflict relating to VMC requirement in Class G airspace at or below 3000' AMSL or 1000' AGL whichever is the higher is:

 

VFG Visual Flight Guide, 2008 Edition by Aviation Theory Centre

 

Page 134

 

Visual Meteorological Conditions (VMC) are:

 

·A minimum separation from cloud of 1000 feet vertically and 1500 metres horizontally; and

 

·A flight visibility of at least 8 km (if you are at an altitude above 10,000 feet) and more than 5000 metres (if you are below 10,000 feet)

 

This version indicates there is a vertical cloud separation requirement, and CASA confirms this is incorrect

 

 

CASA Visual Flight Rules Guide Version 2 July 2007

 

(Diagramme + Quote from AIP ENR 1.1 relating to Class G Air Space)

 

Page 223

 

At or below 3000 feet AMSL or 1000 feet AGL whichever is the higher

 

5000 metres visibility

 

Clear of cloud and in sight of ground or water

 

CASA confirms this is correct

 

 

[Guest brentc]

It is only incorrect by omission. Technically part A is correct because it does not mention 3000 ft, same goes for part B which does mention 3,000ft, so therefore it is also correct.

 

Don't read too much into the guide, remember it is just a graphical summary with pretty pictures of the underlying regulations in the AIP's, CAO's and CAR's and not everything is included so there is likely to be omissions such as these. If it included everything, then it would be as thick as the CAO's and CAR's.

 

Always refer back to the underlying regulations for a definitive answer.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Are we talking about the same thing here?

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Yes. Note I should have said AIP's by the way.

 

Or atleast I hope we are talking about the same thing.

 

I'm saying that the first part is telling you correct information but it does not go on to talk about below 3,000ft, whereas the second part talks of below 3000ft exclusively. Neither is incorrect.

 

Is that what you meant?

 

 

[turboplanner]

What you say may be so, and good additional information but my post's were just that the Aviation Theory Centre VFG creates the impression that there is a vertical cloud separation component in the circumstances referred to when there isn't - you just have to stay clear of cloud and in sight of land or water.

 

Note this is only for Class G below 3000' AMSL or 1000' AGL whichever is the higher.

 

Get out of this segment and the vertical cloud component comes in.