Family Responsibility

[Guest Cralis]

After reading a thread on here, I suddenly find myself questioning myself. And maybe some of you have done the same, but managed to shake off the feeling. Basically, as I am here (in Australia) without family and close friends, I feel I will not be able to go for a flight with my wife for a very long time, due to my responsibilities to my kids (3 years old and 6 months old). IF something had to go south while my wife and I were up there, and it ended in the worst possible outcome, I have no idea what would happen to my kids.

 

I basically feel that although something going wrong is HIGHLY unlikely.. it's still possible, and I don't think I can take that risk. I've told my wife, and she's the most positive thinker on earth, and says it won't happen. But even she agrees that.. it could.

 

Have any of you had the same thoughts? Is it a just concern? Maybe after a certain number of hours and confidence, this change. Baring mechanical issues, confidence breeds better flying and lessens the chances.

 

But, it's just a horrible feeling to suddenly be faced with.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Take out Life Insurance to cover the future of your kids, then relax because its a lot more likely that you and your wife will be driving home from a party and be killed by a drunk. I've had the same feelings and they are not easy to shake off, but I cold heartedly assessed the risks. There are some things I haven't done because they ARE dangerous, but I drove in Speedway for about 12 years because it was actually safer than highway driving. Good luck in shaking it.

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

That's something I think about when I go out on a job at work. We'll be in a Dornier 328, 100ft above the land or water at anywhere between 140kias and 22kias. At that altitude, if something goes wrong then there's no time to muck around.

 

We train constantly, we practise our emergency procedures constantly, so much in fact that I sometimes rattle off my evacuation drills in my sleep (just ask my wife).

 

But it might not happen when you're flying, look at what's just happened in Mumbai, look what happened in Bali and in New York.

 

If you think to much about what might happen you'll give yourself an ulcer.

 

When you fly, you are trained to know what to do in any situation. Don't panic, take control and get home safely.

 

I believe it's healthy to remind yourself that we're not invincible and that your training and experience can and will get you out of trouble if and when it's required.

 

It's defiantly something to keep in the back of your mind but not something to dell on a lot.

 

Life insurance is always a good thing to make sure family will be ok. Plan for your family's future and be prepared for anything.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Craig if you are looking at life insurance or indeed already have a policy, be sure to check if you are covered when flying in a Recreational Aircraft - probably not. Many policies don't cover you for the piloting of any aircraft by yourself, but cover you for Charter and RPT aircraft.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

This is something that really needs to be looked at closely for all, not just pilots life insurance is only a small part of it. chances are your kids may not be able to access it until they become of age. you really need to sit down with someone knowledgable in these things and plan a well thought out will. things to really consider is finding someone who can look after your kids future well being so they do not end up under foster care in a strange family or be split up. Keeping a roof over their heads, schooling plus everyday things we take for granted.. sudden unprepared death can be a disaster for those remaining. The same goes for preparing for your care in old age.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[ab0767]

Craig, I assume that you are that concerned for your family that you don't want to take risks. Tell me do you drive a car? Do you go swimming? Because you have a much greater risk of an accident doing both of these. You cannot stop living because you fear what might happen. I suggest you think of the joy that flying will bring you and your family and that great feeling you get when a dream comes true

 

 

[Thx1137]

hehe, I had similar thoughts over a month or so period but then though that it was more likely we die in a car crash. From that angle it isn't really a to fly or not to fly question but a general living life question. I thought of life insurance myself though it is expensive and while my family wouldn't be as comfortable as they are now without me they would get on ok.

 

The best you can do is have everything in order and use it to ensure you don't become slack in your flying. Like, when you think "should I go around? I think I might be ok" remember these thoughts then just go-around. :-)

 

Steven.

 

 

[jordy]

Craig,

 

I agree with the guys above, check your policy. (I'm going through the same thing at the moment) We worry about something happening while we fly but will happily (over) load our families in the family bomb drive day and night to go on hols sharing the same abused piece of tarmac with every other fool out there-half of them going the opposite direction missing you and your beloved by 1-2 mts- whilst we chat, listen to radios, eat, talk on the phone get tired, grumpy, argue.....................it goes on and on.

 

or

 

Fly in a machine which you have personally checked out to every possible degree, been trained in by an expert trainer to the best of his ability, in a sky which by world standards is amazingly free of other users, and those that are out call you and tell you where they are and what they're doing!

 

I've made my choice..:thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Hi,

 

Same thoughts here. I was also concerned about protecting income assuming you survive an incident. So i found a broker recently that provided in my opinion a good policy. It is through Macquarie, covers you for recreational flying as long as you do not exceed 75 hours per annum. It also covered business expenses and had a super component on death as well trauma insurance. And the best part it was just shy of $2K.

 

If you are interested in the brokers details pm me.

 

Regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[Guest Cralis]

Thanks guys. Looks like everyone (including me, now) think the same. drive a car - have the same worry. My only thing is - I have to drive a car. But I agree that we're taking the same risks there. Let the flying continue. However, what I will do is put a minimum limit on the number of hours I clock up before taking my family for a flight. That minimum hour limit to me is unknown, as I am too inexperienced to be able to say that, by 40 hours, I will feel confident in myself enough.

 

Life insurance - I know my company has some deal with my super fund, that has a deduction for life insurance cover. I questioned it, saying that I might kick the bucket flying a plane. They said that all employees are on some base cover, and it's a no-questions asked thing. We signed nothing. So we're covered for all eventualities. If we want to increase the cover, then we need to sign some checklist. They seem 100% confident that I'd be covered - but, to be safe, I'm going to double check that.

 

How do you do wills in Australia? Is there an online way? :)

 

Jan - is that a premium of $2,000 a year for life cover!? Wow!

 

 

[Guest Flyer40]

Craig, in my line of work I spend the majority of my time determining how and why people brought themselves to grief. Philosophically I believe there are two types of people; those who are ignorant or complacent about their risks, and those who are consciously aware of their risks. These two different mindsets fundamentally shape behaviour, decision making and therefore outcomes. I find it is the former group who are typically involved in accidents. Or put another way, people really do make their own luck. I think you'll be just fine.

 

 

[Guest melsways]

Hi I no what you mean, but the way me and my hubby look at it that if you are going to die you mose well die doing something that you love and be happy doing it!!!! MY HUBBY ALMOST DIED IN A CAR ACCIDENT THAT WAS NOT HIS FAULT AT THE AGE OF 34YEARS OLD ITS A DAY NONE OF US WILL EVER FORGET BUT ARE GLAD THAT HE LIVED TO TELL THE TALE. SO JUST TRY AND REMAMBER HOW MUCH YOU LOVE TO FLY AND HOW WELL YOU HAVE BEEN TRAINED. OU CAN ALSO TAKE OUT INSURANCE FOR YOUR FAMILY. EVEN THOUGH YOUR FAMILY ARE NOT IN OZ ASK ONE OF YOUR CLOSEST FRIENDS THAT TO TAKE CARE OF THE KIDS OR FOR THEM TO TAKE THEM TO A FAMILY MEMBER. WE HAVE BEEN ASKED BY A FRIEND IF ANYTHING HAPPANS TO HIM (SOLE PARENT, NO FAMILY) TO BRING UP HIS 2 KIDS AS IF THEY WERE OUR OWN AND WE WOULD FEEL HONOURED TO DO SO IF THE TIME COMES. ALSO DONT FORGET TO WRITE A WILL TO MAKE SURE YUOR REQUESTS ARE FOLLOWED AS YOU WOULD LIKE THEN TO BE. TAKE CARE AND HAPPY FLYING!!!!

 

 

[HEON]

I don't think anyone has said it but we all should have a will. Even if the risk of early death is remote it is the only way to either have your say on where you want your assets to go, or speed up estate settlement time. Even more important if multible partners/children etc. Disputed estate settlements only make lawyers rich.

 

There is nothing more certain: it will be needed sometime!

 

 

[shags_j]

A little concerned by this thread so checked my life insurance through my fund. Because I have group cover (ie. negotiated for all members) then there are no specific exemptions per person (only exemption was suicide).

 

If i were to get seperate cover then that would be a different story and I may not be covered (or pay an excessive premium).

 

 

[shags_j]

I don't think anyone has said it but we all should have a will. ...

There is nothing more certain: it will be needed sometime!

Reminds me of something Dr Carl once said:

 

Life as a sexually transmitted disease with a 100% mortality rate.

 

 

[Guest sypkens]

Jan - is that a premium of $2,000 a year for life cover!? Wow!

Hi Craig,

 

Yes it is but remember it is an income protection policy with a life clause in it. Not a Life cover policy.

 

I thought it was cheap because it covers my wage, all my monthly business expenses including my car and included as mentioned the super component and trauma insurance. I spoke to another insurance company that did not offer half of this policy, wanted full medicals, was more expensive and then decided they were not going to cover me for flying.

 

Regards,

 

Jan

 

 

[Yenn]

I don't know the numbers, but from personal experience the friends and aquaintances who have died from aviation accidents have mostly been older people, who have no kids at home. Only one was young enough to be a parent and he was a proffessional chopper pilot. Took off at night to look for whoever let off distress flares. Very sad as it was a hoax and two good men died after discussing wether or not they should respond. They could have legally and morally ignored it.

 

So I think it is mostly us old blokes that kill ourselves, but don't know why.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Several years ago my mother fell ill and could not make decisions for herself. as she had not made any arrangments as to her care in this type of situation and she had not made a will for when she later passed it all became an incredible and stressfull mess. DOCS found there way into it as well as some gruby relatives and the fight was on to keep control of her welfare. this went to court and as DOCS know the system back to front, it became a nightmare. It turned out that the carers are on DOCS side as they get a slice of the pie. they conjured up all sorts of stories to support DOCS. She past over just over a year ago and i can hounestly say it was the best thing to happen.

 

If you have young children and you do not have a will that states how and who gets to care for them THEY WILL end up in the care of a faceless and greedy Govt dept. there are many children out there in the hands of foster carers who are in it just for the govt payements. would you want your kids to be in this sort of situation. if you do not have a will then i strongly suggest that you talk with a reletive and your children if they are old enough to understand and sort out their future just in case yours comes to an unplanned end. Insurance coverage is fine but without a will they wont be able to access it until they are of age. What about who gets the house or the death payout from your super or your aircraft ect ect ect, so find a trustworthy person and make them a benificary with the conditions of how it is spent specifically stated in the will. You can buy DIY kits and lodge them with the fee. but i recommend doing it as a group with your solicitor. have several copies made up and have the solicitor hold one and give one to the kids and one to the person you trust. if you have only one copy and it gets destroyed lost ect it will be just as bad as not having one in the first place. When my uncle died his will had somehow been "lost" and my cousin had a will drawn up from her memory. it leaned very heavily in her favour. amazing.

 

be a responsible parent, get a will made up.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[sain]

Guys, stay away from the do it yourself will kits, they are dodgy as an extremely dodgy thing. Hire a lawyer and get it done properly. Make sure people know where your will is kept.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

As for insurance, I went with Zurich. I told them I was flying and the contacted me to ask how much. (I said 50-100 hours a year) A few days later the policy came through with no restrictions.

 

$500K for me, $250K for the missus and $3500/month income protection cost about $1200/year.

 

 

[HEON]

Great about the insurance cover but get a will and make your loved ones know where it is. Makes probate faster and (mostly) stops people getting it you don't want to.

 

 

[farri]

Guys,

 

Be very carefull with any insurance you may have , thinking it will cover you in the event of a fatal accident in your aircraft or a flying schools aircraft.

 

I paid high insurance premiums to a very reputable insurer of recreational aircraft,for my aircraft, pilot and passenger, for all the years I was running my flying school.

 

I read the policy very carefully and I felt secure in the knowledge that if the worst ever happened and I was killed the payout would take care of things and my wife.

 

As time went on the wording of the policy changed a little and I became concerned so I contacted the insurer for a definition and I was told that the pilot and passenger were in fact covered for the stated amount but only in the event of injury,not death.

 

The point is this, nowhere in the policy that I was given ,did it state that we were not covered for death and had I been killed,my wife would have got nothing,had a student or passenger been killed,we could have been facing one heck of a litigation issue.

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest Ruprect]

Yes, I agree the chances of being in a motor vehicle accident are much greater. But the chances of surviving one are also much greater.

 

Question asked after car accirdent-

 

Did he survive?

 

Question asked after aircraft accident-

 

Was he recognisable?

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Yes, I agree the chances of being in a motor vehicle accident are much greater. But the chances of surviving one are also much greater.

Yup! I am comparing fatalities only.

RA-Aus has about 6 fatalities per 100,000 hours flown.

 

On the road, about 0.8 people die per 100 million kilometers traveled. This includes pedestrians mowed down by P-platers skidding out of corners.

 

My car tells me I average 45KM/hour, which is probably average for most people.

 

So that brings car fatalities to less than one for more than 2 million hours driving!

 

Yup, you are over 100 times more likely to die in a light aircraft crash than you are being killed by or in a car.

 

Hope I don't spoil anyone's appetite for flying this way, but facts are facts and it is usually better to know them...

 

Now, to put things into perspective. Lets say people killed per fatal crash is 1.5 and you are an average 50 hour/year ultra-lighter. You'd have to fly for 500 years before you kill yourself, statistically speaking! And as explained above, you really do make your own luck. So if you are careful, you are probably talking thousands of years.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I once had a life Ins policy when I was a very active skydiver. Even paid an additional 'loading' to cover me, and my gear whilst skydiving. Trouble was there was an 'exculsion' clause that said I wasn't covered, from 'the time I left the aircraft till the time I landed on the ground'. Like hello, isn't that when you would normally kill yourself skydiving ?..... Turns out they were actually wrong, because the closest I actually got to killing myself during that period, was when the bloody jump-plane crashed on take off !!!