Playing with the Big Boys.

[Ewen McPhee]

I was up doing some circuits this morning in a Texan. There was another student and instructor in the circuit. The other Texans radio was unintelligible. The Qantas Q400 made an inbound call at 40nm with circuit time at 9 minutes. The Pilot in Command asked us how many more circuits we were going to do, as their usual intention is a rNAV approach to Runway 24, which is downwind. One texan was on final and I was downwind for 06. My first thought was to tell Sunstate that I would depart the circuit to the west and stay away till he landed. We couldn't understand the other Texan's radio calls. As it was smoke haze made visibility very difficult. The Sunstate pilot amended his call to join the circuit for 06, so I landed and pulled off the active runways. The other Texan's radio was US by them and he landed as well.

 

My question is what do people do when the Big Boys come to play. Do you bug out and go for a fly, stay in circuit in your slower ac or land and hide behind the boundary marker?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Legally, everyone has equal rights - there's the celebrated story about a light aircraft coming in to Mascot and an inernational ac behind him was ordered to go round. The american pilot responded by saying "that's gonna cost my boss $16,000.00" The tower responded "XXXX make a $16,000.00 go round".

 

Having said that there's also prudence and mixing big weight differences and speeds is dangerous, so what you did seems the smarter move.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

The Qantas Q400 made an inbound call...

 

My question is what do people do when the Big Boys come to play

First thing, be relieved the pax jet was on the right frequency ... .........

 

 

[ahlocks]

I talk it over with them and work out a plan that works for both/all.

 

Some times I'll bug out of the circuit. Some times they fly a standard circuit. Some times I'll slow and extend. Some times they'll slow their approach. What ever works and fits in with the particular circumstance and other traffic at the time.

 

A couple of days ago, the wind and locusts decided to take a break and provided a perfect couple of hours for a bit of aviating. An air ambulance called inbound just before I called taxing. The Kingair was setting up for a straight in on the downwind runway and I was taxying for the opposite end. He asked my intentions and then offered to join the normal circuit. A couple of exchanges and we'd agreed that he should continue straight in and I'd hold for he's arrival - about four minutes if it was that.

 

We do the same thing with the RPT. I think the best thing is to establish communication and work toward an amicable solution.

 

Cheers!

 

Steven B.

 

 

[Ewen McPhee]

Yes a conversation was had and the senior RTP pilot made the call. We just landed and got out of the way for safety sake. The Q400 looked mighty big from the Left hand seat of the Texan as I was on final.

 

We seem to have a lot of trouble with the radios in the texans though - not sure why.

 

 

[ahlocks]

Ewan,

 

Absolutely concur with your actions, in case you were thinking otherwise.

 

The thing I like about RPT is that they are so big and predictable. I reckon we'd scare the bejezzuz out of them if they didn't have TCAS 'cuz they'd be pushing pooh upslope to see us otherwise!

 

What breed of R/T in the Texans?

 

 

[Ewen McPhee]

Mine had an Icom, the offending Texan had a little Microair

 

 

[ahlocks]

Mine had an Icom, the offending Texan had a little Microair

Hmmm, different types rules out what I was thinking....

 

Sorry, I'm no help to you there then.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Playing with the Big Boys

 

Not sure if I am the 'big boy' or 'little boy', I guess it depends on whether I am at Mascot or Walgett!;)

 

Ahlocks I am sure my colleague and his patient appreciated your gesture, I know I always do!:thumb_up:

 

PS: On the Texan radio thing, I reckon it could be the aerials!

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

i have quiet reguraly been flying at ballarat and the strike master has been coming in base and i have been on final, i do what i think is the gentleman's thing to do and abort and go round, i just make the call to him and ask if he has sufficient room and i am willing to "go round" he gives the "would much appreciate it thank you XXXX"

 

there is no way he will be able to land or do a touch/go with me in the way and he is burning alot of fuel to.

 

its called AIRMANSHIP in my opinion and has always been on the top of my list, one day i might need to have someone go round or make a move for me and i just hope they are as willing as i am

 

just my 2 cents...

 

 

[poteroo]

At CTAF(R's), it's essential to teach all the necessary adjustments, eg, extended circuit legs, slow flight to lose time, and orbits on any circuit leg, so that the student is equipped to deal with RPT. In our case, we also have frequent visits by RAAF PC-9's, which creates some communications difficulties for low time pilots and students.

 

One of the common problems is that we might have into wind training ops on the cross runways, but with RPT/CHTR/RAAF arrivals onto the main, (but out-of-wind),runway. In which case we ensure the students can land and-hold-short of the main runway, or make an early decision to go-round and so obviate the tricky decision to land short.

 

It really comes down to your instructors ensuring that you are equipped to handle these decisions.

 

For 1st,2nd,3rd solos - we take a 'seat' at the intersection, armed with a trusty VHF handheld, and ensure that everything happens according to the rules, and students are protected as necessary.

 

happy days,