the foxbat

[alf jessup]

I just need to crank my Warp Drives around a bit now. I have wicked take off performance, well more than I need now, but she is maxed out at 87kts @ 4900 rpm, which is my ecomomy cruise. It will do 92 when it's washed, waxed, no mud, no dust, just serviced, but alas, that only happend once every 50hrs!!

Planechaser,

 

Are you saying you Foxbat in straight and level wont rev past 4900rpm?

 

I am asking this because if it is such the case you need to re adjust your pitch on the prop.

 

If you think it climbs good at 4900 rpm try 5500, the 912 can run all day at 5500 rpm. (5800 max for 3 mins)

 

If your only getting 4900 out of it your not working the engine hard enough, 912's thrive on revs not on loafing along.

 

Overall an excellent aircraft, my mate has an LS also an it is a hoot to fly

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[Planechaser]

Planechaser,Are you saying you Foxbat in straight and level wont rev past 4900rpm?

 

I am asking this because if it is such the case you need to re adjust your pitch on the prop.

 

If you think it climbs good at 4900 rpm try 5500, the 912 can run all day at 5500 rpm. (5800 max for 3 mins)

 

If your only getting 4900 out of it your not working the engine hard enough, 912's thrive on revs not on loafing along.

 

Overall an excellent aircraft, my mate has an LS also an it is a hoot to fly

 

Cheers

 

Alf

Hi Alf,

 

It will rev out to 5240, which is better, but still not 5500. I would be happy with 5400 in straight and level.

 

I just need to get onto Silverwing and get the prop pitch range so I am not stumbling around in the dark, and then twist it around a bit.

 

I usually cruse around 4900- 5000 rpm, mainly because it uses around 20lph at that power setting and it makes the sums easy!

 

 

[bones]

Planechaser,Are you saying you Foxbat in straight and level wont rev past 4900rpm?

 

I am asking this because if it is such the case you need to re adjust your pitch on the prop.

 

If you think it climbs good at 4900 rpm try 5500, the 912 can run all day at 5500 rpm. (5800 max for 3 mins)

 

If your only getting 4900 out of it your not working the engine hard enough, 912's thrive on revs not on loafing along.

 

Overall an excellent aircraft, my mate has an LS also an it is a hoot to fly

 

Cheers

 

Alf

Do you know where the 912's develop max torque?

It is torque you need not hp, so to set it just about max torque with the prop will give you better performances IMHO.

 

My 912 is pitched to max of 5300, been like it for 1600 odd hrs,

 

 

[alf jessup]

Hi Alf,It will rev out to 5240, which is better, but still not 5500. I would be happy with 5400 in straight and level.

I just need to get onto Silverwing and get the prop pitch range so I am not stumbling around in the dark, and then twist it around a bit.

 

I usually cruse around 4900- 5000 rpm, mainly because it uses around 20lph at that power setting and it makes the sums easy!

Planechaser,

 

5240 is fine, I was under the impression it was pitched to 4900 max.

 

When I got my trike it was pitched to 4900 and taxied so damn fast i was wearing brakes out at idle, i felt it was sluggish on takeoff roll & climb so I pitched it to 5300, the difference was amazing, then after a year or so I bought another set of Bollys while I sent the original set back for duratuff leading edges to be fitted and re pitched it to 5500 and it was a notable change again.

 

It is still set at 5500 max rpm and I use that in my takeoff to make sure it does infact attain full power but in cruise in the trike it only revs at 4100- 4200 s&l hands off, if i was to run it at 5000 i would get awfully tired of holding the bar in.

 

At 5500 the trike will not stall with the control bar out at the compression strutt 2 up, it will just happily climb away at about 37kts and 1000fpm depending on conditions.

 

Bones,

 

No mate don't really know where it develops max torque, never needed to look for it as a XT trike has more than enough power in reserve.

 

I would say IMO that the finer the pitch (more prop RPM) the more performance in climb you would attain and the max tourque figure would be irrelevant as engine performance is governed by max rpm at a set pitch.

 

I remember with my trike when max rpm attainable by the pitch of the prop was 4900, it would cruise hands off at 3600-3700 rpm and the temps were quite low, the takeoff roll and climb performance was woeful, by comparison at 5500 rpm accelaration is substationally increased and takeoff roll would be almost half, give or take a bit and climb out performance is way above what it was.

 

Trikes are a different kettle of fish to 3 axis machines as being draggy and having a massive wing area for the weight, from memory in the Tecnam at 5000-5100 rpm i would be cruising along at 100-105 kts trimmed and s&l, if i pulled the power back to trike cruise rpm i was back to about 65 -75 kts and a having far higher aoa to maintain level flight

 

Horses for courses, more speed more power

 

Bit of a contradiction isnt it that i say 912's thrive on revs and in cruise I cant use those revs unless i want to have arms that look like Arnold Schwarzneggers

 

I'm hoping this makes some sense as now I am starting to confuse myself:bash:

 

Alf

 

 

[Planechaser]

Bones,

 

128NM @ 5100RPM

 

So going on that, I'm probably right where I need to be with my prop, torque-wise.

 

Quick buzz around the waters this morning with a pax, flat stick at 5160 RPM and 95 kts on the straight.

 

Probably means 97 kts solo; plenty for me.( Plane suffering from bug factor at the moment also!!) My fault for pussy footing around at 4800/4920 RPM!!

 

The RPM figures look a little strange because I have MGL digital instruments and the RPM goes in jumps of 120RPM, for reasone unknown to me.

 

This means that 5160 could be 5200 I am guessing, because it won't read 5280 untill it gets the high side of 5220.

 

That sentence looks confusing, but I'm sure it makes sence!!

 

BTW, MGL instruments are the Ducks nuts, IMHO.

 

http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_engines/rotax_912ULSs.htm

 

 

[alf jessup]

Planechaser,

 

Dunno what your worring about, I have bug stains on the trailing edge of mine where they run into me from behind.

 

Alf

 

 

[bones]

Bones,128NM @ 5100RPM

 

So going on that, I'm probably right where I need to be with my prop, torque-wise.

 

Quick buzz around the waters this morning with a pax, flat stick at 5160 RPM and 95 kts on the straight.

 

Probably means 97 kts solo; plenty for me.( Plane suffering from bug factor at the moment also!!) My fault for pussy footing around at 4800/4920 RPM!!

 

The RPM figures look a little strange because I have MGL digital instruments and the RPM goes in jumps of 120RPM, for reasone unknown to me.

 

This means that 5160 could be 5200 I am guessing, because it won't read 5280 untill it gets the high side of 5220.

 

That sentence looks confusing, but I'm sure it makes sence!!

 

BTW, MGL instruments are the Ducks nuts, IMHO.

 

http://www.rotaxservice.com/rotax_engines/rotax_912ULSs.htm

Yep your right on the money for sure with the prop.

 

Damn that speed pretty good for the rpm, hmmmmm what to do,,,,,,,,,,

 

The MGL instruments all do that jump, UNLESS you go inside the main settings and change the filter and the bla bla bla, but then because you are getting such a quick response it changes about 40 times a second in 2 rpm lots, very hard on the eyes , i done it once and damn near couldnt remember how to change it all back.

 

Yep those guages are about the best for the price i have found, i used the E1 on the last machine i built, the whole engine monitored on 1 guage in very easy to read and set up system, for i think $450, you cant go wrong with that i feel.

 

 

[Planechaser]

Well, the jury is back; flew to Jamestown and back today for some pump parts. Let the ponys run at 5200 RPM all the way there and back.

 

Used 24.4 Lt/h. Yikes!!

 

Flying at my usual 4800/4920 around the place, I use 19Lt/h. No wondere it's called economy cruise!!

 

5Lt/h doesn't sound like much, but when you are doing 35hrs a month it starts to add up. I don't know if it's worth the extra 6 kts........

 

 

[Hill]

I have a Foxbat A22 ,have done about 600 Hr on it .It is better than all you have herd .It can fly slow ,it can fly fast

 

(for a LSA fast enough) the doors can cume off for photo shooting .Short take off and landing,lands on the beach.

 

Has ampel room for 2 big people

 

 

[eightyknots]

I have a Foxbat A22 ,have done about 600 Hr on it .It is better than all you have herd .It can fly slow ,it can fly fast(for a LSA fast enough) the doors can cume off for photo shooting .Short take off and landing,lands on the beach.

Has ampel room for 2 big people

Do you have some pictures, Hill?

 

 

[Planechaser]

I have a Foxbat A22 ,have done about 600 Hr on it .It is better than all you have herd .It can fly slow ,it can fly fast(for a LSA fast enough) the doors can cume off for photo shooting .Short take off and landing,lands on the beach.

Has ampel room for 2 big people

Spot on Hill,

 

The only real reason you would go for the LS is the heavier undercarage.

 

If you had no need of that then the L would be fine, (and $10k cheaper new, and available second hand!!).

 

 

[Hill]

here are some pic,s

 

 

 

 

 

[Hill]

some more

 

 

 

 

[alf jessup]

Well, the jury is back; flew to Jamestown and back today for some pump parts. Let the ponys run at 5200 RPM all the way there and back.Used 24.4 Lt/h. Yikes!!

Flying at my usual 4800/4920 around the place, I use 19Lt/h. No wondere it's called economy cruise!!

 

5Lt/h doesn't sound like much, but when you are doing 35hrs a month it starts to add up. I don't know if it's worth the extra 6 kts........

Planechaser,

 

I litre per knot almost, hmmm nup not worth it mate i'd stick to the 19lph :-)

 

Alf

 

 

[Chrism]

Spot on Hill,The only real reason you would go for the LS is the heavier undercarage.

If you had no need of that then the L would be fine, (and $10k cheaper new, and available second hand!!).

But isn't the A22L's MTOW (legally) only 450kg, whereas the LS is up to 600kg?

 

 

[Guest JeffC]

But isn't the A22L's MTOW (legally) only 450kg, whereas the LS is up to 600kg?

It's recently been approved to 525kg. Manufacturer's certificate for inclusion in the aircraft manual is on the foxbat australia website. foxbat.com.au.

 

 

[Planechaser]

But isn't the A22L's MTOW (legally) only 450kg, whereas the LS is up to 600kg?

Yes, caught me out Chrism. You are right.

 

The L apparently has an airframe rating of 510kgs, and the LS of 650kgs. Of course this would not make them legaly loaded as far as CASA/Ra-Aus is concerned, so insurance is out the window, and even if something wasn't you fault, it will be. (Like drunk driving)

 

 

[Chrism]

It's recently been approved to 525kg. Manufacturer's certificate for inclusion in the aircraft manual is on the foxbat australia website. foxbat.com.au.

Thanks for that, I didn't know about the approval. That's great-525 is plenty for full fuel, 2 average sized people and a bit of baggage. I think the original limit of 450kg was there because it was inline with European microlight regulations wasn't it?

 

 

[Chrism]

It's recently been approved to 525kg. Manufacturer's certificate for inclusion in the aircraft manual is on the foxbat australia website. foxbat.com.au.

Thanks for that, I didn't know about the approval. That's great-525 is plenty for full fuel, 2 average sized people and a bit of baggage. I think the original limit of 450kg was there because it was inline with European microlight regulations wasn't it?

 

 

[Chrism]

It's recently been approved to 525kg. Manufacturer's certificate for inclusion in the aircraft manual is on the foxbat australia website. foxbat.com.au.

Thanks for that, I didn't know about the approval. That's great-525 is plenty for full fuel, 2 average sized people and a bit of baggage. I think the original limit of 450kg was there because it was inline with European microlight regulations wasn't it?

 

 

[Guest JeffC]

Thanks for that, I didn't know about the approval. That's great-525 is plenty for full fuel, 2 average sized people and a bit of baggage. I think the original limit of 450kg was there because it was inline with European microlight regulations wasn't it?

Yes I believe so. Australia accepts certifications from selected overseas aviation authorities and manufacturer's piggyback certifications from those countries to save the expense of separate Australian certification. I think the 450kg limit in Europe was more intended to regulate range/useage than design limits.

While accepting international certifications makes a lot of sense in some ways, it can cause ridiculous anomalies in others. For example, in Australia the factory built Foxbat A22L (25-xxxx) was limited to 450kg while the 51% kit assembled in your garage could have a MTOW of up to 540kg (19-xxxx). Other makes were similarly affected.

 

 

[eightyknots]

While accepting international certifications makes a lot of sense in some ways, it can cause ridiculous anomalies in others. For example, in Australia the factory built Foxbat A22L (25-xxxx) was limited to 450kg while the 51% kit assembled in your garage could have a MTOW of up to 540kg (19-xxxx). Other makes were similarly affected.

It just goes to show, that with lack of good old Australian common sense, the law really is an ass at times.

 

 

 

[john mitchell]

Hi Carl, what is the IAS cruise for the Foxbat? I am currently flying a Jab160c with a cruise speed of 95-110knts....The Foxbat looks excellent with loads of room and awsome visability and a great price. But I have heard that it only has a cruise speed of 80-85knts?

 

 

[alf jessup]

Hi Carl, what is the IAS cruise for the Foxbat? I am currently flying a Jab160c with a cruise speed of 95-110knts....The Foxbat looks excellent with loads of room and awsome visability and a great price. But I have heard that it only has a cruise speed of 80-85knts?

Hi John ,

 

Couple of my mates here at West Sale own Foxbats, one a L and one a LS, the L cruises at 80-85 Kt the LS 90-95, can get 100 out of if if running it fairly high rpm.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[phvdw]

Hi,

 

we have 2 A22 (Foxbats ) in our club, A22 80pk rotax and A22L 100pk, A22L has less wingspan, 80pk cruise 80-85 kts, 100pk 95-100 kts cruise

 

grtz,

 

philip