Piper Tomahawk ?

[Adrian Lewer]

Hi all got a good one for you...

 

if the increase in weight goes up can we fly a piper tomahawk on Raa which has a MTOW of 757KG ?

 

if so this is good, but could we re register it Raa ? so we as owners could do the maintenance ?

 

same Question goes for 150,152 Ect...

 

 

[Guest palexxxx]

This question has already been answered previously, see these posts

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/general-discussion/16985-cessna-152-raa-registration.html

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/general-discussion/13157-why-do-we-need-want-760kg.html

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/general-discussion/19569-weight-increase.html

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Yep. The Tomahawk I believe was one of the specific reasons for the extra 10kg's versus the original 750kg's as CASA offered 760 even though they were only after 750.

 

The Tomahawk is a great aircraft for RA-Aus. Fairly low running costs, quite large, plenty of room, original GA style and moderately simple to work on as not much goes wrong with them. Add to that low purchase price. I've seen quite good examples at around the $25k mark.

 

 

[facthunter]

Tomahawk.

 

Would agree with the above. Price will depend a lot on engine hours to run. the engine is a 2400 TBO. Nev..

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The EAA has reported tht the going price of GA aircrat that comply weight wise to the new rules are rapidly increasing in price. i'd exect the same to happen here.

 

 

[Guest weekendwarrior]

Beware, the Tomahawk wing has a lifetime fatigue limit of 11,000 hours, and many airframes may have close to that many hours (flight schools). I believe there is a life extension mod but this has to be checked.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I have read about the mod, I believe about US$3500 ads another 2000 hours or so.

 

The one thing that puzzles me is how the Tomahawk could be included as it stall above 45. Some I have seen mentioned at 46, elsewhere I read 49.

 

Anyone know the answer to this one?

 

 

[Guest brentc]

From memory the Tomahawk fits in the FAR category where it will not matter that the stall speed is slightly over. It's 49 from memory. There were only a couple of aircraft in this predicament and it was mentioned in the discussion paper.

 

 

[Guest mike_perth]

Hi all

 

The Tomahawk does have a wing life extension kit available for $3500US but the down side is the cost of installation - wing needs to come off be completely stripped of skin the mod has to be installed and re-jigged re-skinned and re-installed so yes the $3500US for the kit is cheap but the labour to install anyones guess - Ive heard 160hrs as the rumored time needed!

 

So depending on the LAME's hourly cost an expensive repair unless its on a really cheap aircraft

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Hi allThe Tomahawk does have a wing life extension kit available for $3500US but the down side is the cost of installation - wing needs to come off be completely stripped of skin the mod has to be installed and re-jigged re-skinned and re-installed so yes the $3500US for the kit is cheap but the labour to install anyones guess - Ive heard 160hrs as the rumored time needed!

 

So depending on the LAME's hourly cost an expensive repair unless its on a really cheap aircraft

 

Mike

Thats not a problem - if the option most people apparently "voted for" is accepted, we will be able to do the work ourselves. No need for an expensive LAME (unless the plane is going to be used by an FTF).

 

John

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

I'ts a shame as I love the Tomahawk.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

I'ts a shame as I love the Tomahawk.

Depends; for a busy school, a Tomahawk with only 1000 hours left is all but worthless, especially if the engine is due and they can't let it go on condition, etc.

However, if you are the average private pilot doing 100 hours a year and don't mind getting your hands dirty, there's likely another 10 years of fun to be had for your $15-20K purchase!

 

 

[facthunter]

Agree.

 

This can well be the case. If you let an a/c run right out of time, you have a very big bill coming up in one lump. 1000 hours can be a flying lifetime of fun. BUT Get it inspected by someone who KNOWS the type. It's still got to be airworthy regardless of the hours to run. There are lots of aircraft that have "lifed" wing spars etc. Nev.

 

 

[Guest cyrus]

I have been flying Tomahawks from my very first GFPT flight up to the 4th nav ex of my PPL training and have something like 45 hours (12 PIC) in a Tomy.

 

In my opinion that's an excellent and low cost basic trainer up to the GFPT -I mean for circuits and flights in the training area-, with the advantage of being a low wing aircraft. The fuel flow is also really low with 17L/h.

 

However, as you start navigations, the aircraft becomes quite tiring to fly in the sense that it is not very stable due to the combination of a low airspeed, a small and classic airframe -I mean not a synthetic one which manages to remove a lot of parasite drag- and a very light weight, so you always have to adjust, retrim, etc. your heading, altitude, etc... so if you have to manage radios, charts, logs, etc. it does not make life easier. Moreover, with a planning TAS of 90 knots, navexs can become quite long.

 

=> Just for the story, I upgraded for the second half of the PPL training to cherokees warriors -4 seats aircraft, faster, heavier, IFR equipped, etc.-, which made my life in the cockpit a lot easier, as once trimmed, the aircraft does not moves a lot.

 

Then, I did the conversion training to Cirrus SR20 and 22 and wondered why the hell all GA aircrafts are not like that?

 

Anyway, this last two exceeds by far the limitations of RAA...

 

All in all, the Tomahawk is a really pilot friendly and easy aircraft to fly which, according to my opinion and depending on the particularities, really worth $20 to 25k.

 

Cyrus

 

 

[Guest Walter Buschor]

Weight increase to 760 kg

 

RA Aus has gained a lot of new ground in the past few years and as a result we all benefit from it. The possible inclusion of the Tomahawk / 150,152 series has some good points - but also some bad ones. My concern is the fact that these planes have many thousands of hours on the clock and have always - at least officially - been maintained by lame's.The design of these is more complex than your average Recriational plane and as far as I have heard does not lend itself as easily to the "home-mechanic".

 

Now here's the rub: what happens if - or when - some of these planes have accidents under RAA registration.

 

It is not too far fetched that some would argue that this would not have happened IF Lame's had continued to maintain them. The accident may have been avoided and because of "relaxed" RAA rules it "might" not have received the correct maintenance.

 

A call could then be made to have these planes checked once again by Lame's and the rest of us thrown into the equation for good measure - all in the name of safety - of course.

 

I'm all for more freedom and relaxation of rules - I'm just concerned that this step might be counter-productive.

 

safe flying

 

the grey Nomad

 

( a name given to me in response to another issue - and I love it! )

 

 

[trevorp]

Weight increase to 760 kg , Ive heard the weight increase to be anywhere betweeen 2 to 5yrs away. Does anyone no what time frame its likley to happen.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Weight increase to 760 kg , Ive heard the weight increase to be anywhere betweeen 2 to 5yrs away. Does anyone no what time frame its likley to happen.

Hi mate, No body knows, it got knocked on the head by CASA, they said "not at the moment".It could be one year or never.Anyway thats my take on it.