Cheap navigation - Mio Moov and OziExplorerCE

[slartibartfast]

I highly recommend doing the SD only method. I've done it for a lot of 370's now and it works every time.

 

If all turns to toast, simply remove the SD card and reset. Back to how you bought it - no risk at all.

 

Ignore this advice at your (financial) peril.

 

 

[ianboag]

I don't know about the Mio Moov, but I have now fooled about with a few Chinese Win CE GPS's of different anonymous brands. They all have a "setup" button on the front page - if you select it one of the oprions is - "nav path" or "GPS path" or something like that.

 

So if you set up OziExplorer on an SD card and stick it into the GPS - you will be able to select \whatever_the_card_is_called\oziexplorer\oziexplorerCE.exe as the navigation app.

 

After doing this, when you select "GPS" off the front screen you get OziExplorer.

 

When you want to use it in a car, you just go back to setup and change the app back to whatever it used to be ...

 

So it isn't really necessary to "unlock" it - this is a slightly kludgy but not difficult approach to making a $160 car GPS into something that gives a $1300 Garmin Aera a bit of a fright.

 

The other thing I have been looking at is the problem of reflective screens - 3M have a 50mm wide clear duct tape that makes quite a difference when applied to the screen. Actually regular old invisible Scotch tape is not bad, but of course it only comes 15mm wide so the result is not real pretty ...

 

Cheers IB

 

 

[Cosmick]

Hi Ross,

 

MAPTRAX are no longer supplying Aero Charts, does anyone know of another source. Looking for WAC's from Roma to Birdsville and a VTC for Toowoomba - Oakey. If they are no longer supplying is it still unethicle to share a copy?

 

Mike

 

 

[pradeep]

Hi Cosmick,

 

When I saw this news I was thinking is it OK (legal wise) to share our copies of WAC's with each other if required or in this forum.

 

If I converted any maps using OziExplorer and post it in this forum is it legal or am I breaking the law?

 

I really like the idea of sharing things that I can share with others, like open source.

 

Regards,

 

 

[slartibartfast]

I suspect it would be illegal. I forgot again (until about an hour ago) to call Airservices back.

 

I will do it on Monday and get an answer to this question too.

 

 

[ianboag]

Yes to give away your copyright maps to someone is indeed illegal.

 

Unless of course they already own some paper maps. If that's the case, then this is just format-shifting. It's like me asking you to rip my CD so I can play it in my iPod. My CD, my iPod.

 

So - if someone asks you for a copy of the digital maps, you should confirm that they own a copy of the relevant paper map. If the buyer tells you that he has some, then of course it's not unreasonable to give him (or even sell him!) copies that have been converted to ozfx3 format.

 

As far as I know, format-shifting is sort of illegal, but has never been enforced. Format-shifting for personal use seems to be sort of accepted as too hard to do anything about. The recording industry gave up on it and they are a pretty tenacious lot.

 

Go figure. Ask Airservices about format-shifting and wait for the cloud of smoke.

 

IB

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

Would you physically have to view Joe Blogs has actually got maps already before giving or sharing your maps with him?, or could you take him on face value that he had actually got the said maps? Sue

 

 

[ianboag]

Why would Joe be less than truthful? Me I think people are fundamentally honest. :-)

 

If Joe tells you he owns paper maps and you remember to warn him not to pass any copies of the digital ones around to people who don't have paper maps it would seem to me that you have covered yourself .....

 

 

[pradeep]

Most of the books (printed materials) are copyrighted in a way that you can't reproduce in any format without the author's / publisher's consent (except for reference / academic purpose). On the other hand software copyrights are basically you can use only one copy at a time (like reading a book, only one person can read the book at any given time).

 

I personally think ASA wouldn't have any issues if I convert my hard copy into another format and use one format at a time, but would worry if I started to giveaway multiple copies to others ( basically i am interrupting their business).

 

But what will be the case with the google maps. As they are free to view by anyone on the net, if I convert a portion of google map into another format and post it on this forum how that will stand re the copyrights issues (If I do that will it be really useful for aviation).

 

Cheers,

 

 

[pradeep]

Answering my own question(?!):

 

 

 

From Google copyright information:

 

 

 

2. Restrictions on Use. Unless you have received prior written authorization from Google (or, as applicable, from the provider of particular Content), you must not:

 

(b) copy, translate, modify, or make derivative works of the Content or any part thereof;

 

Cheers,

 

 

[ianboag]

I don't think I was clear enough ....

 

Suppose I have a set of paper maps. I make a digital copy myself (scan and georef) so I can use them in my Moov.

 

Suppose you also have a set of paper maps. You ask me to make a digital version for you because you lack the skills to do it. I give/sell you a copy of my scans. The selling is to reimburse me for doing the scanning job.

 

I can't just give you my copy because that would be copyright violation. I can use my skills to convert your paper one to an ozfx3 for you though.

 

 

[pradeep]

ianboag,

 

I was trying to figure out 2 things:

 

1. Some copyrights don't allow to copy, reproduce, store in any other format. If that is the case then if I scan and put into my moov that is a violation. (however I think this is overlooked by the copyright owner if for personal use, but not sure though.) Even though you are only selling your skills in making digital copy of the original for the owner you must aware of the original copyright conditions. Selling skills are only allowed as far as you are not violating any other laws in relation to the works you are involved with. Well I am only presuming here, maybe this is a discussion for lawyers in legal terms.

 

EDIT: Sorry you already said this above.

 

2. Is there any other resources publicly available that we can use for navigation?

 

cheers,

 

 

[ianboag]

The real answer of course is for Airservices and CASA to realise that in the 21st century, some people want other things beside wallpaper-sized maps. They first of all have to worry about the safety of all this - A1 size maps have been proven over many years to be totally safe and 100% usable in cockpit environment. Just ask someone who wants to go cross country in a Pitts Special :-)

 

Part of their reluctance to release digital maps may be that we can't be trusted with them. Imagine someone making decisions of a moving-map VNC in a Chinese GPS. Needs a bit of thought really. Shouldn't take more than another couple of years.

 

 

[Cosmick]

Im not even a Bush Lawyer but I would expect that any copyright would be with the printed charts. The digital map is that item scanned and provided you have paid for the printed chart you should be able to own the scanned digital copy. Then, being that the digital map was sold to the user it may be unetical to then on sell a copy of that image to a third party as it may be construed that you are impacting on the ability of the retailer to earn income. Now that that retailer no longer supplies the images, you can no longer purchase them from that source, then by supplying the image to a third party you are NOT impacting on the retailers ability to earn income.

 

(all sounds like jargon doesn't it).

 

So I want Digital WAC's from Roma to Birdsville and VTC for Toowoomba/Oakey area - where do I get them.

 

 

[Thx1137]

heh. I am not a lawyer either but I do read about this stuff alot in various web sites. Plus I sometimes read at least some of the terms and conditions when I buy something.

 

The law isn't about being ethical. A pXXXXXted work cannot be copied unless the licensing agreement allows you to. Whether the copyright holder is in business or not makes no differenceat all.

 

As in almost all digital purchases, you don't own your copy of the product therefore you have no rights over it except those explicitly given at purchase time (and subject to change retrospectively at the licence holders whim).

 

 

[ianboag]

So I have scanned my (legitimately purchased) paper charts for my own use. No matter what the law says, noone is going to give me any grief for that.

 

My mate Fred sees that and ask if I can scan his (legitimately purchased) paper charts. "Sure thing" I say and I charge him for the scan/copy job.

 

What's wrong with that?

 

IB

 

 

[pradeep]

Legally, first question will be whether you are allowed (terms and conditions) to make soft copies of the paper maps. If yes then there is no legal issues in making soft copies of the maps either for you (from your purchased maps) or for your mate, as far as he is the purchaser (even for a fee for your scanning work).

 

If the maps are pXXXXXted from copying, then it is not legal to make soft copies.

 

If there is nothing stated regarding the copying in the original purchase then it is up to the law to decide whether the copying is legal or not, usually in this case the law will be looking from a point of view of a third person. The most probable outcome will be: if you make a copy from your purchased copy for your personal use then it will be not illegal. I would say even giving it to a single person for free won't be not illegal. But if you give a large number of copies either free or for a fee will be illegal, because all will stop buying from the original author.

 

Disclaimer: The above comment is my personal opinion only not a legal advice. hehe.. ;-)

 

 

[Thx1137]

So I have scanned my (legitimately purchased) paper charts for my own use. No matter what the law says, noone is going to give me any grief for that.

For the chart probably not, I don't think the chart publisher has the resources and they are the ones who have to chase you in a civil case. But don't believe it for music and video. The Oz version of the RIAA has stated fairly recently that it wants to start suing individual copiers, like they do in the US. When ACTA gets the green light and copying becomes a criminal offence, even single copies, then it will get really interesting. The police reckon they are busy now!

 

My mate Fred sees that and ask if I can scan his (legitimately purchased) paper charts. "Sure thing" I say and I charge him for the scan/copy job.

What's wrong with that?

Wrong people to ask. That is the relm of the law makers and has nothing to do with what we mere mortals might think of as fair.

 

 

[pradeep]

Cosmick,

 

It is totally legal to share one of your mates' original digital WAC (not a copy) for your journey.

 

Either he can sell it to you if he don't need it anymore or you can return that to him for his use after your journey.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Cheers,

 

 

[ianboag]

One last try.

 

I buy (licence) a set of paper maps. I scan/georef them to put in my GPS or whatever. Personal use etc - format-shifting "my" (paid for and licenced) maps from paper to ozfx3.

 

However, my mate Fred (who has also bought (licenced) a set of maps) wants a similar set of scans so he can put them into a GPS or whatever for his personal use. Like me he has already paid AirServices for the (wall)paper charts.

 

If it's OK for me to have scanned stuff, it's OK for him. It is not OK for me to sell/give him scans if he does not have a set of purchased paper charts. That would be violation of copyright.

 

IB

 

 

[JayKay]

I've had a look at the VNC-1 Melbourne Chart effective 3 June 2010 and found on the bottom the following copyright message which I'm sure applies to all the Airservices Australia charts (please note I am now breaking that copyright message because I am copying part of the chart without prior permission) ...

 

"This publication is copyright. Unless specified otherwise, you may use this publication only for information purposes. Except as permitted by the Copyright Act 1968, no part of this publication may be reproduced, stored in a retrieval system, transmitted, redistributed, republished or commercially exploited in any way without the prior written permission of Airservices Australia. If you wish to use any part of this publication in any way not permitted by this notice, contact Airservices Australia Publications about a licence."

 

Unless the Copyright Act 1968 approves format shifting it is illegal to copy any part of the chart or format shift it without the prior WRITTEN permission of Airservices Australia.

 

It may not seem fair, but it's pretty clear.

 

That's why we need companies like MapTrax to legally sell us the electronic georeferenced versions of the charts at a reasonable price. If we share electronic charts around for free we break the law and kill off any commercial viability of companies like MapTrax who can supply us with legal product.

 

I'd much rather buy an electronic georeferenced version of a chart and print the parts I need for my flight (this is legal under airnav licence etc) than buy the paper chart then have to break the law by scanning it, georeferencing it, converting the format and loading it into OziExplorer.

 

 

[eastmeg2]

ERSA on WinCE GPS's

 

Has anyone looked at the possibility of placing copies of the ERSA airfield PDF's onto their Windows CE based converted automotive GPS's.

 

In Windows mode my GPS has what claims to be a PDF viewer, but when I placed a copy of an airfield ERSA page PDF file on my SD card and tried to open it, it failed with an error message.

 

If anyone else has tried this I'd like to know, but then there's the other issue of ASA's copyright prohibiting storage on a retreival system - maybe we'll just have to wait for Bass's iPhone app to come out . . .

 

 

[Gibbo]

I have been playing for the past week or so with a Chinese 7" no name GPS that runs win CE 5.0. Unit is unlocked ex factory so that makes the job really easy.

 

I have had success with pocketFMS and about 8 other packages. I am going to load a trail of ozi tonight and I will most likely settle on this package due to the mapping support. Cost including the maps will actually be cheaper than pocketFMS. (over $500 oz plus ongoing updates!)

 

In regards to the copyright issue there was an interesting case last year that sensis lost about the actual ownership / copyright of the data. It turned out that the actual layout was the only part of the phonebook that they could copyright. There is now nothing legally stopping us from collating the ERSA data into a digital database (with the additional records) as the data belongs in the public forum.

 

There are several PDF readers written for WinCE that actually work. Have a look under winCE freeware......

 

Gibbo

 

 

[Upthere]

Hi Ross,

 

If you don't mind can you please set it up on a card and post it (with your bill)

 

many thanks, Colin

 

 

[ianboag]

You could load the ERSA pdf into Paint Shop Pro (or something similar) and save the airfield plate as a JPG. The photo viewer on the GPS should deal OK with that ......