I need to learn Rotax 447- Sadler Vampire SV2

[Guest Wayne]

Hi all, my pride and joy my new, Well old new Sadler Vampire SV-2 has now finished its spit and polish and tidy up. Im now trying to learn all i can about the Rotax 447. I don't have a lot of knowlege about 2 stroke rotax engines so am happy to hear from any of you about, general tips, ect. The engine had 6.7 hours on it since new but had been in storage for a while. our Lame checked it over and it runs like a dream. any good books or articals you know of please let me know. I have been on the Rotax site and they have some good info. but you can never know to much. also any one who has flown an SV-2 id love to hear your experiance on how they handle in the air.

 

Its time to start getting Nervous about my first flight in it. :big_grin:

 

Cheers all wayne

 

 

[BigPete]

Hey Wayne - great stuff, :thumb_up: nothin' like your own aeroplane. Must hop over and catch up soon. :big_grin:

 

regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Hey Wayne - great stuff, :thumb_up: nothin' like your own aeroplane. Must hop over and catch up soon. :big_grin:regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin:

Would be great to see you again Pete ! any time, you know your welcome.

 

 

[Ultralights]

the SV2, handles like a typical GA aircraft in the air, well mine does anyway.. be careful not to over rotate on take off, and landing due to not having a engine cowl in front of you for reference, i ground the bottom off both rudders in the first 5 hrs flying mine..

 

as for the 2 stroke, get sed to long shallow descents with power on, as reducing the power too much at high speed will cause a leaning effect, as the windmilling effect will cause the engine to turn over at a higher revs than the throttle setting, and hence, it will have less of an air/fuel/OIL mix in the engine at this time, resulting in EGTs getting high.

 

when shutting down, give it a good rev to full power the same time you kill the ignition, this will increase the fuel/oil mix in the engine, and when you kill the ignition, it wont get burned, so it will leave a residue of oil over everything, protecting it next time it starts.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

give it a good rev to full power the same time you kill the ignition, this will increase the fuel/oil mix in the engine, and when you kill the ignition, it wont get burned, so it will leave a residue of oil over everything, protecting it next time it starts.

Interesting that this came up, I haven't heard this for years. In a normal 4-stroke car engine this will have the effect of leaving fuel on the piston that will run down the sides of the piston and mean that when the engine re-starts the rings won't be lubricated as well as they normally would have. But of course, in a 2-stroke there is the extra oil in the fuel and no oil in the sump. Hadn't thought of that in a 2-stroke a/c engine before.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

I to have learnt something.

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Thanks again Rob, Never thought of the long shallow approach because of the need to keep power on. Good tip, hows your re-building going ? Thanks also for the info on shutting down.

 

 

[Guest hatrack]

What speed will these things do? and what sort of fuel consumption?

 

What other economic and relatively fast ultralights are out there? One and two seaters. Cheers, Hatrack.

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

SV-2 Sadler VampireDetailsMaximum Cruise Speed at 6300 RPM85 K.I.A.S.Cruise Speed at 6000 RPM75 K.I.A.S.Cruise Speed at 5000 RPM60 K.I.A.S.Stall Speed (Flaps Up)38 K.I.A.S.Stall Speed (Flaps Down)34 K.I.A.S.VNE (Velocity Never Exceed Speed)107 K.I.A.S.VNO (Maximum Structural Cruising Speed)193 K.I.A.S.VA (Manouevring Speed)83 K.I.A.S.VFE (Maximum Flap Extended Speed)64 K.I.A.S.Climb Rate (Sea Level)800 ft/minTake-off Run120mLanding Roll100mFuel Consumption14 L/hr at 6000 RPM

 

9 L/hr at 5000 RPM

 

 

[Yenn]

If you re in the descent phase of flight, why would a leaner mix be a problem, there will still be plenty of oil for lubrication and the power requirement is very low. 4 stroke drivers have been years arguing about lean or rich of peak and at last the concensus seems to have swung around to acknowledging that lean running is not a problem at low power requirements.

 

Foe Rotax info see if you can get hold of California Power Systems catalogue. it has a wealth of info. Try Welcome to 800-Airwolf, Rotax parts, online sales, small engine parts, accessories, Rotax Engines , Genuine Parts, four stroke, rotaz, order online, Rotax, Rotax engines, Rotax aircraft engines, Rotax parts, Rotax engine service, Rotax information re

 

 

[newairly]

Look also at Rotax engines, Rotax 377, 447, 503, 532, 582, and Rotax 912 aircraft engines, parts & ultralight aircraft accessories. and Ultralights, ultralight aircraft, ultralight airplanes, or ultra lights are also known as microlights or microlite aircraft in Europe. In Canada they also fit into the amateur built aircraft category, experimental aircraft and advanced ultralight air for many articles about care and feeding of Rotax 2 stroke engines and Bing carburetters.

 

There are also a long series of articles by Mike Stratman which a Google search will throw up. I think they are in PDF format. Very worthwhile.

 

The Rotax web site is another obvious source.

 

Is your 447 the single ignition, points model? I have one of these on a Tyro Mk2.

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Hi Phil, Yep my 447 is the single ignition points model with 2 carbies. The engine was replaced at 87 hours when the A/C had some maintenance done to it. A new zero hour engine was fitted to it that has done. 6.7 Hours since new, the old engine was rebuilt and has only been started to run it in on a test bench. so I have 2 447's i figure with 2 new engines i need to stick with them for a while.

 

 

[newairly]

Hi Wayne,

 

Mine has a single carby so it is pretty basic.

 

What EGT and CHT do you get? I am finding that mine shows nearly 450F CHT on full power climb and over 1200 EGT. Only a single EGT probe. CHT only on rear cylinder. This is despite a lot of fiddling with carburetter jets and needle settings. I feel that this is getting a bit close to the maximums.

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest keeffe]

Decending with 2 strokes

 

I have always been taught to decend on idle, this was taught to me by Wayne Fisher the king of siezage. I have found my drifter never over revs on idle no matter how steep you point it at the ground.

 

 

[farri]

when shutting down, give it a good rev to full power the same time you kill the ignition, this will increase the fuel/oil mix in the engine, and when you kill the ignition, it wont get burned, so it will leave a residue of oil over everything, protecting it next time it starts.

Never heard of this before or done it so I`m just asking for information,I`m running a Rotax 503 UL DCDI on my Drifter and always idle it, to allow cooling,before switching off.

 

Is it possible that by reving it to full power the pistons will quickly heat and expand faster than the cylinders, then switching it off abruptly,will not allow enough time for cooling,thereby causing some excess friction on the pistons and cylinder walls and damage to the piston skirt and possibly the cylinder walls also

 

Frank.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

Is it possible that by reving it to full power the pistons will quickly heat and expand faster than the cylinders, then switching it off abruptly,will not allow enough time for cooling,thereby causing some excess friction on the pistons and cylinder walls and damage to the piston skirt and possibly the cylinder walls also

No it would not

 

 

[Guest keeffe]

Frank,

 

I idle down and let my engine cool a few degress as you do only 30 seconds or so.

 

With most engines its the change in rpm all the time that wears them out, so being smooth with your engines is a recipe for longevity.

 

Do you really want to trust revving your engine and then shutting it down and believing that oil will still be there next time you start it?

 

Personally I shut my machine down and when next I come to fly I leave my mags off and pull it very slowly 3-4 with the throttle slightly open (Ensure your earthing is working) then I close it off to normal start and crank it fast a few time. This insures new fuel and oil coats everything fresh for your start.

 

Remember the choke is an enricher so having the choke on for the priming pulls is important.

 

One last thing is your oil. Use the best you can afford. I personally use penrite

 

HI-PER TWO STROKE. HI-PER TWO STROKE - Penrite Oil

 

This oil can be bought from any supercheap auto and it is the only oil I have found that exceeds the highest Japanese standards and fulfils the requirements of Rotax specifications in its price range. And at about 3-4 dollars a litre more than the Activ 2T that people are using that turns into black sludge and runs out your exhaust pipe it's money worth spent.

 

I don't get any smoke poor running or slime comming out my exhaust pipe, it mixes well. I can't recommend it anymore.

 

LOVE THE 2T's :)

 

Michael

 

 

[newairly]

Quote,

 

One last thing is your oil. Use the best you can afford. I personally use penrite

 

HI-PER TWO STROKE. HI-PER TWO STROKE - Penrite Oil

 

have a look at:

 

Two stroke engine oil, two stroke engine oil test, testing results for two stroke aircraft engine oil.

 

and:

 

How 2 cycle aircraft engine oil works, what makes a good 2 stroke oil, two stroke air cooled engine oil, two stroke liquid cooled engine oil.

 

Lots of good info and tests of some leading oils.

 

I use the Pennzoil 2 stroke air cooled. It is actually cheaper than the Castrol 2T here. It comes out very well in the tests and from personal recommendation from a property owner who has lots of 2 stroke machinery and used to own my plane. Exhaust system has no oily deposit whatever.

 

Phil

 

 

[Guest keeffe]

Thanks m8,

 

I have read that before I even tried to look for it here in Aus but the company told me they didnt have the exact oil here in Aus.

 

If you look at jaso and all the standards you will find that the penrite far exceeds all required standards.

 

Thanks for the heads up though

 

Michael

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Thanks for the info Keeffe, I rang Floods and they told me to use Active 2T so that is what I have started with. Thanks also to the other guys for all your valued input. Newairldy, Much to my joy i found all of Mike Stratman's 2 stroke articles in a box that came with the Plane so I have some very good reading now, thanks for your info. This is the true benefit of this site, If you don't know ask, and some one will know and be happy to pass on their knowledge to you. Thank you all I will keep you informed as Vampire SU015 hits the air again.

 

Cheers Wayne

 

 

[Guest keeffe]

Wayne, they also tell you you can use ethanol in your fuel when most oil companies say ABSOLUTELY NOT as the ethanol both gathers water and separates the oil from the fuel. Another thing is if you run ethanol sue to its high oxygen content you will need to rejet your machine.

 

I'd be contacting Richard Eacott for all your rotax needs :)

 

0428632476, 07 54632476

 

 

[Guest keeffe]

I dont mean to sound hasty, but I have had poor experiences with floods to date.

 

 

[Guest Wayne]

Thanks, Noted. I have been told not to change Oils once if start to use one ? but it looks like when the Activ 2T runs out I might change to the Penrite.

 

Thanks again and your comments on service have been noted. ;)

 

 

[Ultralights]

the reason i am in the habit of giving the engine a quick rev then killing the ignition stems from my 2 stroke jet ski days, many friends had engine failures, yet mine and others who were in the same habit never had a failure. though we did preventative maintenance religiously, and seeing as my vampire hasnt flown for over a year now, i will not fly it again on this engine, in my mind it has been sitting to long without an inspection, so a new 503 will go in, and the old will be stripped down, inspected and rebuilt to 0 hours.

 

as for oils, i had only used castrol 2t i thik it was called. but the previous owner used a mix of all sorts of brands.

 

from what i have read, a well maintained 503/447 is just as reliable as a 4 stroke engine.

 

 

[Guest keeffe]

Gee I would love to fly a vampire they are very asthetic.

 

Michael

 

If anyone is offering :) I'll be straight around.