My Second Big Nav (What a Blowout)

[Adrian Lewer]

Hi all i thought i would share my second nav experience.

 

We decided a while ago we would go for a 2 day cruise in the little J160-C our plan was to depart saturday 27th from YBLT to YBDG,YSHT,YYWG,YTOC,YECH stopping at all for a stretch, food, empty Etc. and on the way home sunday 28th from YECH, YBDG, YBLT

 

We all know what happened on my first nav so i decided to plan this one well in advance.

 

i rang all aerodromes and asked the usual,landing fees,fuel, tie downs, can i stay in an emergency, things to watch out for, procedures and last but not least is it ok if i land ?

 

after getting the good news from all of them we planned the trip on a flight plan which included the usual, CTAF's, field ALT, leg ALT, TAS, TRKm, TRKt, GS, DIST, ETI ofcourse the TRKm,GS and ETI where filled in on the morning of departure. all maps had lines with 10 mile markers lists of diversion aerodromes Etc.

 

the big day finaly rocked up. on the way to YBLT from home Kirsty drove while i say in the passenger seat and done the necessary Wind Etc. the WX was not the best and we decided we will get to YBDG and see what the WX was doing as we where going to follow it all the way to YTOC.

 

we fueled up,packed up got set up then last but not least got it up :cool:I decided to use the Xponder which was fitted to the J-160-C i have never used one and have only had a personal crash course from the BAK so i set 1200 and set ALT and that was that, set 128.0 on the active and 126.8 on the STBY on the radio.

 

We Departed RWY 36 at YBLT for an overhead departure and it was awesome the best departure i have ever done soooooo smooooooth it was not funny i did not realize i had left the tarmac :big_grin:.

 

Kirsty Was impressed as this was her first time up in a plane. we immediately started a Magnetic track of 013 degrease and approximately 5 minutes into the flight the ground was not looking like the map. we started to get heavy turbulence and i decided we needed to turn back but not after i made a decision to try and operate the GPS on board (garmin 296). Kirsty somehow got the thing to show a track from YBLT to YBDG we where 6Nm off track. i could not understand how this happened. i was now flying via GPS only and using the map looking at the ground matching them up, but there was not much to match up out there. the WX had calmed down somewhat but it did still demand my hand on the stick all the time. after getting to YBDG we where over the top (WX still ok) we called Descending to join mid field c/wind when all hell broke loose we descended 300Ft in a matter of 1-2 seconds and the WX picked up badly.

 

we called Traffic YBDG Jab 4781 Over the top @ XXXX ft experienced Severe wind sheer 300ft drop continuing midfield C/ wind YBDG

 

after landing we sat down and had a cup of coffee and waited for the local club instructor to land (i decided i needed advice) we had a chat and he said in his opinion if we had another cup or two the WX would move away and we would be out of the tail of it he also said he experienced the same wind sheer. i also asked why the Areafor was so far off he said because of the WX that was clearing it could be totaly opposite to what the WX said ?

 

after the WX cleared up we departed and used the GPS as the main navigation tool and i kept an eye out the window and on the map trying to piece together the puzzle.

 

the WX was still Very bumpy but not like it was before. we continued on to all waypoints landing and drinking coffee at each.

 

after landing at YECH we where greeted by my mother and we where taken up to the campsite at the murry to go water skiing. :thumb_up:

 

on sunday we departed in much better WX. it was not bumpy but more Err...... Wavey ? if you know what i mean. we used the GPS once over top of YECH to get a Magnetic Track and then i done the unthinkable, turned the GPS off. all the way to YBDG .

 

we arrived then turned the GPS back on to get the next Magnetic heading to YBLT then once again shut it off. arriving at YBLT using Semi IFR Law (the i follow Road one Etc)

 

after going home i decided to look at why my trip was so miss planned. and it finaly dawned on my after reading the DAY VFR Guide last night...

 

I HAD FORGOTTEN TO CONVERT THE WIND IN THE AREAFOR TO MAGNETTIC !!!!!!!!

 

what an idiot :hittinghead: i was so disappointed in myself. i did however find that this would only be around the 11 degrease but we where experiencing 20 odd degrease either way i have learnt another lesson (plan a bit better) and we are home safe, plane safe and we had fun.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Your post will be good material for the guys who have done all their navs in calm conditions and arrived exactly on time and exactly over the destination.

 

I've been over the area you had difficulty with, and found it could do with a few more features.

 

The GPS.....I would be doing a re-run at home, and practicing up on the wheel, the map reading, method of correcting drift etc. This problem is if you get a flat battery, or the GPS has some of the glitches mentioned in this forum, you're on the slippery slide to running out of fuel before you find somewhere friendly.

 

I understood Ballarat had a super accurate navigation course which also could be a good investment.

 

Bad luck about the weather though, you've had to do it hard.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

yep they did have a good nav course but the school has shut down

 

i am reading up on drift Etc at the moment and trying to better understand it. thats why i had the BAK at work along with the Day VFR guide last night. i am trying to understand it all more. i do know as of last night if your right wing is ahead more you have right drift, and vice versa and if you subtract your current magnetic heading from your supposed magnetic heading you have your drift angle thats all that has sunk in since reading the entire nav section of both books twice last night, so more study is needed of which i once again will be doing tonight, and the night after.

 

you are right calm conditions i can get right on the top of a destination to the second but when variables start to come into play i need some more self teaching via reading and practical work.

 

as for the flat battery on the gps Etc yep totally agree on that thats why i was watching the map as well, once i had myself on the map i was (sort of) sure of my position most of the time so if something did happen i could have a rough idea of where i was and where i had to go if need be.

 

All i need now is some more air time with navigation and throw in some variables of my own so i can "in flight" practice them which is what i feel is the best thing to do.

 

each time i fly i learn something new which i think is very important.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Good luck, you'll be an Ace!

 

 

[djpacro]

Its been a while since I've flown that route, Adrian, but my recollection is that Mt Alexander is fairly prominent - I wonder if that would have worked as a reference for your nav checks? i.e. it would always be right of the nose.

 

One of my students put the deviation in but the wrong direction so imagine how hard it was for him to work out why he was off track. A wind which is significantly different than forecast will have the same effect and I recommend that you brush up on the section in your notes which deals with that. Reminds me of another error (which I've suffered from) - reading from the wrong column of the flight plan (usually the GS number) so I now highlight that column.

 

Flying dual with my student I didn't check his plan is as much detail as I would've if he'd been solo so we had an interesting discussion on the first leg of the flight. Can't be too many reasons to be 20deg off track.

 

 

[skydog]

you will be fine

 

Adrian with your attitude you will fine and the best way to learn is do what you are doing and keep flying not using the GPS so much but only as a back up. Most pilots if they are honest will admit to be too dependant on the GPS especially in unknown territory which is a bad habit. Obviously on the return flight when you turned the GPS off you knew exactly where you were and if you dont then you can always find out. How?

 

Throttle back to slow down and get some clear think time without going further into the "unknown" and then circle say a gentle 2 minute turn. Using time flown from your last waypoint and ground speed you can easily work out how far away ( distance) from that waypoint you must be.That distance could be a circle in any direction from that way point but you are not that bad a pilot are you so use the heading you chose to estimate where you should be then draw a large circle say 10nm either side of planned track on the map as the area of most probability.

 

Look for obvious large land marks in that area on the map and then look outside to see it you can spot them. Use at least 2, better with 3 landmarks to make a definite fix. Objects like lakes and mountains are best and most obvious as are large highways, but things like rail lines, electricity grid lines, large dams and silos are very easy to see as well.

 

If from the very start of your last positive fix ( waypoint) you make definite fixes every 5 minutes then you cant get lost, eg take up your new heading then immediately look for your first ground map feature.To help with this I make sure from take off or from the last waypoint to ensure a correct map fix and then take a feature in the distance of about 20 to 30nm [if you have visibility ] to use as a heading point or marker. This usually makes sure I am not heading off into the wild blue.

 

Fly using map features and also your deduced reckoning compass heading until you get to that distant feature or market then choose another distance feature to aim for.

 

If the compass heading seems wrong then it probably is due to different wind than forecast and planned for so change the compass heading to match the map pencil line heading accordingly. Also make sure your DG is aligned every 20 mins if using one, that can set you off by a few degrees too.

 

After all we are mostly VFR pilots so use those large visual clues in the distance to help.. It takes a while to get used to how things look from the air especially distance from different heights and time will take care of that side.

 

Its not such a bad thing to use a highlight pen to mark obvious land marks on your map when planning and make sure you spot them during your flight.

 

This is what I do anyway and it may not be text book but I havn't got lost yet even on large hauls such as Melbourne to Narrowmine.

 

The GPS? a fun back up for ground speed , names of tiny towns or features etc marking spots such as a country airstrips etc and a bit of security.

 

Have fun.

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

Hey Adrian, I've just read both your nav posts back to back and mate, I believe there's no better way to learn than doing it the way you have. Best way to learn is in hand, getting it wrong but also knowing where you went wrong so you can recognise it if it happens again.

 

I'm still a few months away from doing my Nav endorsement but everything you've done here, I'm going to take on board with me mate. Great posts, cheers for the advice!

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

Hi Guy's thanks for the reply's first of all i have to say i am not happy with myself. In my opinion i should not have placed myself (or my passengers/aircraft) into these situations, BUT having said that we are taught to keep our heads above water in these situations and this is what i done, kept the aircraft and passengers safe both times, all i see is myself needing some polishing up with planning. but what does someone learn if everything goes to plan all the time ? maybe they will never need to know what it feels like to look out the window and say "crap where the **** am i" maybe they have done all the homework and all is going to plan which i am very sure happens with some pilots but are they pilots who look out the window and if there is 2Kts of breeze they stay home ? maybe some are maybe some are not. what do we do when flying if we are learning nothing ? exactly that NOTHING.

 

I intend to do a Navex very soon (a few weeks or so) and put a new post up called

 

"My NavX Number 3" and within this thread i intend to outline my third navx from concept to completion in a very detailed way, first i will post what aircraft i wish to fly,where, and when. then i will post a detailed flight plan but not just the flight plan but how i got all my flight plan together times distances Etc

 

then i will post on my departure day before i fly, my winds how i calculated them and what ever else is necessary.

 

then i will come back in the afternoon with a detailed trip report flight times,what i experienced in flight, if i was on track or off, did i arrive on time or not Etc. i will also post pictures of my flight plan,maps Etc

 

i think this will be a good thing for myself, giving me the oppertunity for others to pick out errors in my flight plan, and also for others to learn from my mistakes

 

djpacro, yep it probably was but when you are flying and have no idea where you are or what you are looking at it is a bit hard, there are a few hills, mountains out that way i just had no idea, maybe if i fly that way a couple of times i will be a bit more understanding of the area, i can fly without a map from melton,ballarat,colac,geelong etc because of local knowledge.

 

skydog you are right about things looking different from the air and judging distance,

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

Hi Everyone, on "My Second Big NavX" we had a stop in YTOC to see some Rello's who where on holiday there. After we departed they went for a look around the airfield and came across a hangar there. Being a bunch of sticky beaks they ignored the No Entry Signs and went for a closer look and this is what they saw.

 

What i want to know is what are they ? who owns them and can we get an even closer look ? there was also someone there saying that there was a bunch of P51's buried in the area on the field ? is it true ? Would love some "Memento's"

 

 

Oh Yeah and some pics of the Navigator and Myself

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Usual Father In Laws G/Friend Getting a "Joy Flight"

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Me Giving A Quick Check

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And now i can not get good pics ?

[djpacro]

Strikemasters & Hunters. Bill Riley's hangar is some distance off the airport.

 

 

PS - we were there by invitation of the owner.

 

PPS - if I told you what I know about the P-51s I'd have to shoot you

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

you could not put me in touch with the owner could you i would love to have a look.

 

 

[djpacro]

Info in PM for you, Adrian.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

:big_grin: Thanks

 

 

[Mazda]

Well, that's good, you won't ever do that again!

 

One tip is when planning to look for general features that will show that you are on track before you get too far from the airport. Look for something within say 5 or 10 miles that will show you are on track.

 

Should you be left or right of that lake or town? Should you be flying along a ridge or a valley? Should that mountain be ahead of you or to your right? Even really obvious ones. Should you be heading towards the sea or the mountains?

 

Establishing that you are on track early on will help to avoid easily made errors that we all make.

 

Look for a feature in the distance to help to keep you on track. Point to that mountain or to that town, or that ploughed paddock, tree, whatever.

 

The wind is often not as forecast anyway, so you'll get to know soon enough what it is doing to you, how much drift you have etc. Some people steer track as heading initially and see what the wind is doing, then adjust accordingly. Whatever you do, at times you'll have to adjust your heading, do a 1 in 60 etc to get back on track.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

I think on takeoff i was keeping too much of an eye out for other aircraft, watching the instruments to much and not keeping the eye out the window, like i should have been. you are right i will make darn sure i will not do that again.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yep, if you can't confirm you are ontrack within 5 miles out, then dont go any further.. youve made a booboo somehwre..

 

I am a little confused. Are these Nav's your doing post xcountry endorsement??..if not i assume Kirsty is your instructor?

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

Yep they are Post. Kirsty is my fiance who was helping me to find bits on the ground that looked like the map. she is good with electronic stuff so i threw the Garmin 296 at her and said here operate this :big_grin:. Not sure why i was so far off track ? but i do know i did not deduct my magnetic variation from the Areafor durning the planning, this would account for 11 degrease but not the 20 odd degrease i had.

 

This is another reason i will be doing my next nav and keeping a meticulous log of what i do and posting it here for you all to wander experienced eyes over. i will be making long legs and keeping them in areas like lethbridge, colac,out to queenscliff then tooradin, so i am over areas i know by ground but not to well in the air, so if i do get disorientated i can easily find a huge land mark (like the city) and know where i am.

 

Actualy just a thought, have not been up to ararat, horsham way, might do that as there is less to see and more to concentrate on.

 

cant wait to do my next navx and keep a better mental note of where i am going and what i am doing. maybe in a couple of weeks.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Great stuff.. Are you useing 10 mile, 10 minute or 6 minute markers??

 

ps, 20 deg off track is easy done, winds can be quite different to whats forcast, turbulance can make compass reading and allignment near impossible..just to name a few...

 

cheers

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

i am using 10 mile markers which are 2 miles either side of track. i think there are only 2 ways to navigate, stuff what the wind is doing and look out the window or use a gps. i have learnt a lesson and that is to not rely on what the wind says and concerntrate on what the ground says.......... but it is harder than it looks.

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

and yes because the winds where everywhere the compass was a mongrel i like Ian's gazelle as it has a DG. but i think i need to get up in the air and wait till the compass settles then look at a land mark on the horizon and fly to it, but as i said easier said than done... a bit more practice

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Haha..true...

 

Give the 6 minute markers a try... get someone to show you how... i have always used 10 mile markers, but recently got converted to 6 minneys...Basically you have an eta evry 6 minutes, works quite well...

 

cheers

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

6 minute markers ? so do you do them after you know the winds or do you do them based on you aircrafts TAS. I will take a stab and say it would be on the speed expected on the day to give you better indication of where you are. but had to ask.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

yes, you use your predicted GS...make the markers 6 minneys apart, and after you log your departure time you can go along and add 6 mineys to each marker, so you know exactly what time you should expect to see what, rather then applying wizzwheel calc's..and any gs different to whats planned will be immediatly apparent..ie, oh, im not spose to cross that road untill time 23, and its 21, im 2 minutes faster then whats planned, so your revised eta at destination req's no more calcs then that...

 

Or, im sapposed to follow this powerline untill 12 past, then it bends to the south...etc....

 

it works quite well..

 

 

[Adrian Lewer]

cool i will play with it a little and see how it goes.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Ps...theres a really cool trick for picking up your track without having to overfly...its handy and speeds up the departure if your having to fly away from upwind direction... reckon it would be hard to demonstrate in text though...ill see if i can paintshop some diagramms...

 

cheers