PPL and RAAus Cert

[Gibbo]

I am starting to head down the path of the 'PPL' and currently hold a RAAus Pilot Cert with the Cross Country endorsement (and a few others).

 

I Currently have just on 200hrs of which 45 hrs are dual and 140 hrs of PIC.

 

What would be the fastest and 'cheapest' method of gaining my PPL so I can fly some slightly larger aircraft?

 

I currently hold a ASIC and what would I require in the way of an AVID to hold a student pilots licence?

 

Any recommendations for a 'respectable / non-bodgy' GA school based in the east of Melbourne?

 

Gibbo

 

 

[Guest Ken deVos]

Hi Gibbo

 

As a suggestion, do the theory first.

 

If you are currently flying out of Lillydale (YLIL) then speak with Brett Mitchell the RAA CFI. Note that before sitting the PPL theory, you must have a (GA) BAK pass endorsed in your logbook.

 

YLIL has a respected GA school, albeit at a high cost.

 

Coldstream (YCEM) should have the GA school running again by the end of January and are currently waiting for their AOC. Speak with Dick Gower who is the CFI of the combined GA & RA-Aus school. Hire cost is a little more reasonable and with a discount for mid-week (similar to the YLIL method).

 

 

[Gibbo]

The cost is the scary part!

 

I tend to split my flying between a couple of strips due to aircraft availabilty, the skill set of the instructors and the weather so the location is not-so important.

 

How hard was the GA bak compared to what is expected from us poor RAA pilots?

 

G

 

 

[Guest Ken deVos]

....How hard was the GA bak compared to what is expected from us poor RAA pilots? G

Probably very similar to RA-Aus. Some schools teach RA BAK to the same level as GA. If not, then an intro to weight & balance and use of Bravo charts is usually needed. It may only be a formality for some, hence speak with your CFI. The PPL theory exam supervisor will need to see the BAK endorsed in your logbook.

 

 

[Skyhog]

I currently hold a ASIC and what would I require in the way of an AVID to hold a student pilots licence?

Gibbo

You have all you need with a RAAus ASIC.The student licence takes 2 weeks to process if you already have an ASIC or 6 weeks if you don't.You can start your training without the licence but can't solo until you have it in your hand.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Just a tip, but don't be looking for the fastest cheapest, spend the time and $$ to get good solid training... Fast and cheap is macdonalds;)

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

Just a tip, but don't be looking for the fastest cheapest, spend the time and $$ to get good solid training... Fast and cheap is macdonalds;)

x 2 on that one!

 

I opted to pay $180 an hour for a very good instructor, professional school and a sweet aircraft to fly in, instead of $120 an hour for a weekend operator in an aircraft I wasn't sure about. He was a good instructor but I reckon you've got to line everything up to suit yourself.

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

The cost is the scary part!I tend to split my flying between a couple of strips due to aircraft availabilty, the skill set of the instructors and the weather so the location is not-so important.

 

How hard was the GA bak compared to what is expected from us poor RAA pilots?

 

G

G'day Gibbo,

 

I am just going down the same path at the moment, the BAK was much the same as the RAA, with the exception of loading and performance charts. I actually did a GA BAK / PPL course with Matt Jones and Jono K from Lilydale, which I found to be extremely helpful. Reading all the books etc by yourself is OK, but it is good to be able to ask questions etc to help your understanding.

 

Another thing a few people have mentioned to me is getting your medical sorted sooner rather than later, in case there is any problem that may prevent you getting a PPL / CPL, better to know before you burn up a whole heap of money on lessons!

 

Dave

 

 

[Gibbo]

It's going to be down between the RVAC and Lilydale based on a few conversations I've had in the past couple of days. Most likely will be YLIL just because of the reputation they have and the familiarity I have with a couple of the Instructors. I am going to just have a shot at the PPL theory myself - A couple of brothers who sat their BAK back in the eighties should help get me thru it. At the very least it should be a good refresher.

 

The schools based out of Moorabbin are more geared towards the overseas full time students who want the 150hr CPL course. I don't think I need the practice of near misses and English language classes and definitely don't want to become an aerial bus driver. No insults intended towards this group but 99.99% of my flying is in Class 'g' and also in remote areas. A GAAP airport may get used once a year with a very rare visit into controlled airspace. $$$$$$

 

For the record - I hope I never have the displeasure of talking to Brett while he is at work. ;)

 

Gibbo

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

Hey Gibbo,

 

If you end up at YLIL, maybe I will see you down there sometime, I intend to start flying in the warriors in the next week or so. I will also keep flying the Jabirus in the meantime for trips here and there.

 

Problems with Brett?

 

Cheers,

 

D.

 

 

[Gibbo]

No Problems with Brett.. Was making the comment about who R461 flys for. The concept of having a rescue aircraft trying to find me in my 'normal' work enviroment (read very remote areas) is not pleasant.

 

The only reason I am going to upgrade my 'certificate' is the weight limitations. I dont think that the 760kg rulings will occur in a hurry. Read - maybe in the next 10 years. I have flown myself around the country three times now in a j-160 and a little more bum room would be nice.

 

Gibbo

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

Aahhhhh............ That makes sense!!

 

Agree about the extra weight / room. I also personally enjoy the "learning" aspect of flying, and am looking foward to more of it.

 

 

[Yenn]

I havn't flown GA for a long time, but my recollection is that some of the GA fleet have no more "bum room" than the larger RAA planes. I certainly found the C150 very cosy with a passenger and I am a light weight.

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

That's ok Gibbo, if ever I do have to come and get you I'll add some extra's to the first aid kit....6 pack maybe? :thumb_up:

 

 

[maxamos]

RAA to PPL

 

Gibbo,

 

Or anyone else going down this road let me know how you are going with this ?

 

I am also heading down this road, RAA to PPL, so I am interested in what you find out. Have approached a few different schools asking the question about what is required to convert and got different answers last year so went and studied the books and passed my PPL BAK, then the PPL theory exam. Now I am looking to start the actual flying training.

 

Did seriously think about Lilydale as I did a lot of my RAA training with Brett M, and Brent, but it is a bit too far for me.

 

Have had a couple of flights in a C-150 and main thing I have noticed is the difference using a yoke, rather than stick. First time was trying to steer the plane when taxing with the yoke like a steering wheel. :hittinghead:

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Note that before sitting the PPL theory, you must have a (GA) BAK pass endorsed in your logbook.

I've just been re-reading this thread. Ken, you do not have to have passed a GA BAK to complete your PPL theory IF you hold an RA-Aus certificate.

 

We've covered this a few times before and I told everyone how I went through this process myself and did the PPL straight after RA-Aus cert and did a PPL flight test and away I went. Don't let GA schools tell you otherwise as it's just not true!

 

 

[maxamos]

Brent,

 

Does it really matter that much ? I was quite happy to do the exam and prove to myself that I knew ( or hadn't forgotten ) all of it. As it turned out I learnt quite a few things, as the PPL BAK, was more involved than the RAA. Loading charts etc.

 

All good information, and then no one can question the relevance of my licence. The more I learn the better, hopefully, I will be. There is no way I could have passed the PPL BAK without having studied for it, which tells me that I didn't know enough to be competent or to be exempt doing the test. That is specific to me though as I don't know what level others have studied BAK for RAA.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

No insult, brash or misinterpretation taken, it's just that I like things to be technically correct. If you don't need to do it, then you shouldn't have to, but if you want to, that is entirely up to you and as you have said in your case, it was good for what you want.

 

One of the reasons that many of us choose to fly RA-Aus is as a low cost alternative to the direct GA pathway and within reason it's great if we can keep costs down and give ourselves affordability in aviation. What we don't want is GA flying schools de-valueing the RA-Aus certificate and making certificate holders jump through hoops that simply aren't needed, or legally required.

 

Trouble is that when BAK is mentioned, often it's lumped in with GFPT and the GFPT is not required either when transferring from RA-Aus to PPL if you have your cross-country.

 

I once wrote a detailed article on this a few years back, however it wasn't accepted/published into the magazine as they are about keeping members and not having them off flying GA !

 

Gibbo, there's also Tyabb. I did mine with Sandy from Tyabb. I won't say he was a pushover (wink), but he did make it a pain-free process. My renewal 4 years later with him was also just as enjoyable and hassle free.

 

 

[Gibbo]

I've had Sandys name mentioned a few times so I should give him a call. ;). I was under the impression that we had to resit the BAK and GPFT, If not life is 'lot' cheaper.

 

Things could be cheaper if I could do the flight test in a GA jab.

 

Gibbo.

 

 

[Simonflyer]

Hi Gibbo..

 

Im currently doing both RA and GA Side by side, and i have found that by getting stuck into the GA Theory first that the RA stuff follows on pretty well(there are a few differences-Law being one)..I would also say that once you knock out the BAK, then go on to the PPL straight away, as its really good to have it fresh in your mind as you go on....Ive been working out of Bob Taits books and have found them pretty good, but the aviation theory centre books have more attention to detail, and more info than you may ever need, but are really good for extra knowledge if you want it..

 

You will also probably be able to do most of it on your own if your good at self study, and may just wish to do a few ground classes on load charts and pressure/density heights and any other subjects that catch you out a bit...

 

Enjoy

 

 

[Gibbo]

Booked in for my Medical on Monday.

 

Either for the Controlled airspace endorsement or the PPL.

 

Gibbo.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Good luck Gibbo. Yep, I did mine with Sandy through Latrobe Valley as they were operating under PAC's AOC at the time. Straight from RA-Aus with CC endo to PPL theory exam (which I did at Tristar), a couple of flights in the 172 into CTA and then the test. Only did the one flight with Sandy which was the PPL flight test, then I renewed with him last year and that went well. He's pretty reasonable and after all it's PPL, not CPL, so it's for fun remember.

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

Good Luck Gibbo,

 

I did my PPL exam on Tuesday (and passed), medical is done, and I am going for a "familiarisation" flight in one of the warriors at YLIL on Sunday. See how we go after that.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

 

[Gibbo]

Going to try and short cut it a bit further by knocking off as much of the Controlled airspace endorsement in a Jab that I can over the next few weeks and that should only leave the IFR part of the PPL which can't be done in a Jab.

 

Biggest bugger is that I will need to wait to get the Controlled airspace endorsement.

 

I Need to check on the finepoint legalities of what I am about to do but should be able to slip it thru but let's see if I pass the medical first.

 

Gibbo