Drifter vs Jabiru for training

[Tomo]

I'm about to start my training soon, and my instructor says it's better to start in the drifter, then work up from there....and I totally agree with him. But I just wondered for interest sake, what others thought about it....?

 

Cheers,

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

my instructor says it's better to start in the drifter, then work up from there....and I totally agree with him.

Sounds like you and your instructor have discussed just what you will be doing in the future flying wise, and decided on the most suitable path :thumb_up:

 

 

[Tomo]

Well we haven't discussed much at all actually, he just said that the drifter TEACHES you to fly, wheres the Jab doesn't...and it would be easier to upgrade than downgrade (so to speak)...

 

And on the other plus side it's cheaper than the Jab...:thumb_up: but on the down side Dad doesn't like 'em:sad:, there slow:clown:, and there open cockpit:big_grin:

 

But anyway your all probably wondering why I've even asked this question, because I'm sort of answering/convincing myself the more I talk...

 

It would still be nice to hear your point of view into the matter though, even though I probably won't change my mind if your against it:laugh:

 

Thanks,

 

 

[motzartmerv]

The jab doesn't teach you to fly hey??...well thats a first..;)

 

Since when is going UP in complexity, speed, handling, takeoff weight, range, endurance, stall speed, slipperyness etc easier then going down??...anyway...well move on

 

The Drifter is cheaper like you say, but you'll be in for some conversion time when it comes time to step up (or down, ;)) to the jab..

 

BOTH acft will teach you to fly, and it sounds like your instructor has formulated a plan for you (as HPD said) so just have faith in what he says..

 

That being said.......

 

The jab is a bit of a handfull for newbies, and the drifter is exellent fun, and a very docile taildragger.

 

I guess it depends on what you wanna do once you get a licence..

 

Im sure many, many people on this site would argue that the jab certainly does teach you to fly though..

 

cheers, and enjoy.. either way, your gunna love it...

 

 

[facthunter]

Choice.

 

I reckon you will end up better with the drifter. You will bet more experience of the basics of flying, and to not be in the open air is something missed.

 

They are different but they are both aeroplanes. To go from the Jab to the drifter would be more of a problem than doing it in reverse.

 

An enclosed cockpit does insulate you from some of the reality of flying.. Nev.,

 

 

[HEON]

I started flying in a Jad LSA (430kg max) and then a 160.

 

Currently own Lightwing Speed.

 

An presently doing tail wheel and low level endorcements in Drifter.

 

The Jab 160 and Drifter are quite different to fly symplisticly as one is high drag and the other is not.

 

EITHER will be good to learn in.

 

Doing both gives you a quite differend perspective and I think a greater insight into this flying thing! Concentrate on either then do an endorcement on the other....will give you a different perspective.

 

If grammer etc poor ...sorry...started on the red before opening formanssss

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

IMO you're lucky to have the opportunity to learn in a Drifter as not many schools operate them. Hence its getting harder for pilots to experience the pleasures of traditional rag & tube ultralights (& get Low Power and Tail Wheel endorsements in the process).

 

Pretty much every second school operates some varient of Jabiru so its not difficult to find somewhere to convert to them later & I don't believe it would take any longer doing it that way round (rather than starting in the Jabiru). If your instructor is who I think it is, he has a wealth of experience and I would certainly defer to his opinion.

 

BTW when you're young you are supposed to do things your Dad doesn't like ;-)

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Steve Donald]

it/s chalk and cheese learn both and combine your experience as an advantage will save ya bum at some stage.

 

 

[Tomo]

Thanks for your input into the situation guys, much appreciated...:thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

BTW when you're young you are supposed to do things your Dad doesn't like ;-)

I don't think its a supposed to thing, it a seems to happen once in a while thing, anyway he really is pretty good...:thumb_up:...I'll talk him into liking them yet...;)

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

G'day Tomo,

 

Mate, I learnt to fly in a Drifter and yet I'm not a proponent of the "all good pilots learnt to fly in a Drifter" theory. Nor do I believe that "Real men fly taildraggers".

 

The Drifter is great to fly, but it is easy in most respects being that it has one speed for take off, cruise and landing. The only hard bit is that on the ground, it is a marginal taildragger (not quite a real taildragger).

 

With the Jab you will need to learn a much wider range of speeds, VNE, VNO, Va, cruise, climb, best glide and VFE etc. And you will learn about flaps etc. Speed management in the jab is harder and more like any other conventinal aircraft. motzartmerv is right in that respect. At the end of the day, it is your money, spend it how you want on what you want.

 

Remember this. When they say, "all good pilots learnt to fly in a Drifter":-

 

Kirby Chanbliss (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Peter Besenyei (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Paul Bonhomme (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Matt Hall (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Many many awesome pilots (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Good luck.

 

 

[facthunter]

Rudder.

 

This pilot has the OPTION of learning in the drifter. His instructor recommends it

 

In the drifter he will learn to use the rudder, or else he will not be able to fly it. This is a good start as many pilots of single engined aircraft never learn to use the rudder fully and to it's limit. He is lucky to have the opportunity. Take it. You don't have to put a silly sticker on your rear window, but at least you have been there. Nev..

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

The only hard bit is that on the ground, it is a marginal taildragger (not quite a real taildragger).

Bit of a mystery what you mean Cloudsuck ? Its marginal, but not a real taildragger

 

 

[facthunter]

Centre of gravity.

 

IF the centre of gravity is behind the mainwheels, and designed that way, the aeroplane will behave as a tailwheel aeroplane, and as far as I am concerned. IS a tailwheel aeroplane. ( the further behind, the more exaggerated the effect).

 

Another issue is, is the aeroplane stalled when the "backwheel" is on the ground. It doesn't matter (in principle) where the tailwheel is mounted. (half-way back as in the Meta-sokel or past the tail like a C-180 etc. Nev..

 

 

[Tomo]

In the drifter he will learn to use the rudder, or else he will not be able to fly it.

If you didn't live in Ballarat, I could nearly mistake you for the instructor Nev, that's exactly what he said...

 

He also mentioned something about stall spins etc...which you can't do in the Jab...

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Bit of a mystery what you mean Cloudsuck ? Its marginal, but not a real taildragger

I guess what i'm saying is that it is the easiest taildragger you will ever fly. In the three point attitude, it is flat like a nose dragger. It is very docile compared to my 6 cyl Tailwheel Jab and even a Piper Supercub or Aviat Husky. There is no vision problems over the nose, you don't lose sight of the runway when you round out. Approach and landing speeds are slow so you don't spend much time dancing and trying to keep it straight etc etc etc.

 

Sorry if I offended you because you thought you were flying a real taildragger.

 

 

[facthunter]

Ta....

 

You can't legally do any more than an incipient spin wing drop) and recovery in any of them. You will learn a lot about aileron drag and low inertia/ high drag effect too. Show it who is boss, but don't drive it like a bulldozer. Good luck ..Nev..

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Recently advertised my 582 CB Drifter Certified trainer for sale. Sold it to the first caller, who just needed it for private flying.

 

Of the remaining six serious calls, at least three were from school instructors (some already using Jabs) who were still looking for a good entry level trainer.

 

Nothing wrong with a good bit of time in a Drifter.

 

 

[Guest High Plains Drifter]

I guess what i'm saying is that it is the easiest taildragger you will ever fly

Agreed :thumb_up:

 

Sorry if I offended you because you thought you were flying a real taildragger

none taken, just clarifying your comments.

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Agreed :thumb_up:

 

 

none taken, just clarifying your comments.

Great because the last comment was of course tonge in cheek ;)

 

 

[Student Pilot]

Remember this. When they say, "all good pilots learnt to fly in a Drifter":-

Kirby Chanbliss (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Peter Besenyei (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Paul Bonhomme (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Matt Hall (didn't learn in a drifter)

 

Many many awesome pilots (didn't learn in a drifter)

So what did the boys learn to fly in, not a Jab? What a great job those blokes have.

 

In the three point attitude, it is flat like a nose dragger.

If it was a nose dragger wouldn't the nose be dragging? in that case it would be going backwards? Maybe a nose PUSHER?

 

 

[antzx6r]

Well it is a pusher thrust type...

 

I wonder how hard it would be to give it a tricycle conversion?

 

Why ruin a good design I guess.

 

 

[facthunter]

Triconversion.

 

This is most likely impractical. A pusher like the drifter has the weight of the engine balanced by the front seat occupant, in this case the pilot.

 

Incidently that is the reason for the weight of said person having to be within a specified range. If you are too light a lead weight is fitted under the occupant, if you are too heavy, then theoretically you should not fly, because you are outside the design C of G range .

 

Now getting back to the location of the mainwheels in the tri-gear configuration. If the mainwheels are located just behind the in flight C of G, when the pilot gets out , the aeroplane will sit on it's tail. If you move the wheels back so this does not happen, when you land, the nosewheel has to put up with the weight transfer, and the wheel being forced onto the ground by the forces involved with landing impact and the couple (which is now much greater than desired because of the new rearward location of the wheels) makes it difficult/impossible to hold off with the limited elevator effect. This happens with the Vampire, which often suffers nosewheel damage for this reason. Nev.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

You blokes missed my sarcasm, I was inferring a nosewheel should not be called a "Nose dragger". The correct terms would be Nosewheel and conventional undercarriage.

 

There aren't many tailskids around so why call them draggers? Tailwheels have a reputation that only hairy chested real men can fly them, that's rubbish. This aviation lark has all sorts of folklore and false fairy tales. Back in the olden days that's all there was to train on, Austers and Tigers. There was no such macho stuff about having to be a highly skilled aviator to tame these wild beasts, it was just go flying.

 

 

[Tomo]

To tell you the truth, I don't really care where the third wheel is...:big_grin: If it's got wings and something to take off and land on, and most importantly can fly;) it'll do me.

 

That said, it depends on the design of the acft and what suits it best I reckon, like you wouldn't want to put a tail wheel on a Cirrus! it just wouldn't be right...:ah_oh:

 

:big_grin:

 

 

[gofastclint]

The only 2 aircraft i have flown are the 2 mentioned. i like the drifter in take off and landing, but find the jab less tiring, then again, i am disabled and can only walk at about 1kmph without aid, so i really notice the difference.

 

What it comes down to is the instructor, if you like them you will learn more.

 

My dads saying. "A good teacher may not have the skills to be a world champion but they have the skills to refine others to get there"