microlight questions

[Guest Guest]

Hi,

 

I have a GA GFPT and am thinking about getting my pilot cert to fly microlights (trikes, weight shift) Have a few questions.

 

1. how safe are these aircraft ? compaired to a tri axis aircraft ?

 

2. how stable and easy to fly are they ? high winds ?

 

3. what is 2 stroke rotax reliability like ?

 

4. I haven't been in one yet, am soon tho, whats it like being "out in the open" ie. not in a cabin, basicly sitting on a seat below a wing ?

 

5. can trikes be flown in controlled airspace (class C airspace is what surrounds be) ?? .. they can be flown into CTAF's and MBZ ?

 

Thanks :big_grin:

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

In answer to your questions

 

1.Trikes are at least as safe as 3-axis ultralights (probably better) provided you respect the limits and do the required maintenance (just like any other aircraft)

 

2. Depends what you mean by stability. A trike will fly hands off just like a 3-axis - they don't require continual pilot input. Pitch stability is positive Ie you if displace the control bar forward or backwards it returns to trim. In roll they have neutral stability - they remain in a turn.

 

Yes they are relatively simple to learn to fly but don't be tempted to try it yourself as all of the control inputs are reversed from those used in 3-axis. Fixed wing pilots seem to need 5 to 10 hours of conversion training. I fly both types but it took about 20-30 hours before I was equally comfortable in both. Windspeed depends to some extent on the trike/wing in question. Some of them cruise at 35kts or less so you aren't go to get very far upwind if its blowing. X-wind limits are typically 10-15kts (though the short landing / take-off distances make using the width of the runway relatively easy). Its quite possible to fly the faster trikes in >30kt winds - its more a question of how turbulent it is than the wind speed. There are no control surfaces so you are moving the entire wing which can get physical if you are flying for a long time in rough air. The wing loading is low compared to many 3-axis types so in reality the limits for most people are the pilot rather than the plane.

 

3.Not really a trike question as plenty of models are available with 912 though in Aus most are 2-strokes. The engines tend to have a much easier life in trikes than in 3-axis (cruise revs are much lower) which is obviously good for reliabilty. Some are dual ignition so the historical worry of plugs failing is less significant (though modern engines rarely have this problem anyway. IMO the majority of premature failures are operator error - either fuel or maintenance related. But no 2-stroke is going to have the same TBO as the engines you are presumably used to in GA. Opinions vary a lot on this but 500 - 700 hours seems to be maximum - for at least some of their 2-strokes engines Rotax recommend replacing the crank at 300 hours.

 

4.You will find out what its like when you try it :-))) I've taken a lot of people for their first trike flight and only one of them really didn't enjoy it so thats probably around 1% albiet of a biased sample. Its very different to 3-axis though - the wing is stable but the trike is not rigidly connected so you have to get used to the sensation of moving relative to the wing.

 

5. CTAF and CTAF-R (there is no such thing as an MBZ now) are no problem provided you comply with the rules same as everybody else. Class-C is theoretically possiblebut there is a fairly lengthy list of requirements - radio, transponder, current valid PPL and approved engine which exclude most trikes. For further info see the thread on control airspace a while ago on the general discussion forum IIRC.

 

Enjoy your flight

 

John

 

 

[Guest XC Buzzard]

hi guys im a newbie as yous have probably guessed. I need some advise. IM going to look for a com set. ( namely a Head set and PPT) for myEDGE MICROas the noise (engine and wind and electrical static is killing my current one. SO were , who, and which ones and who's got the wright Price. Thanks Fellas Regards , Lance.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Hi lance

 

If youjust need a headset to connect to your radio then a good GA set should work (with the correct adapter). But in my experience most of these do not fit very well under a helmet. Either a lot of pressure on from the band on the top of the head or the microphone boom isn't positioned correctly. Headsets designed for use with helmets tend to use a single flexible boom rather than a hinged wire arrangement.

 

If you want to talk to a passenger you will need an intercom box as well. Most microlight headsets are designed to work with these and hence often havecustom connectors rather than 'standard' GA ones. Headsets from onevendor aren't guarenteed to work with a different vendors intercom. IMO the best headsets/intercomare from Lynx with Communica next. Both are _very_ expensive though.

 

Harry Mendlesons supply the MicroAvionics range - very similar to Communica but a little bit cheaper. http://ozpilot.com.au/cgi-bin/weblistpage.pl?microlights

 

A lot of the trikers here use Aerial Pursuits gear. The website http://www.aerialpursuits.com./also has a microlight intercom FAQ which might be of interest.

 

ThePTT will need to be right forthe intercom you are going to use. There is some info on this on the Aerial Pursuits site as well. A problem I've had in the past is the PTT quitting (or worse still jamming on) in heavy rain - mostly they don't seem to be particularly weatherproof. This might not be a major worry for you in Lightening Ridge though !

 

Hope that helps

 

John

 

 

[Guest XC Buzzard]

Well G'day, John. Thanks for that mate . I'll give those sites a go. Can you get those Lynx and Communica brands here , or doyou have to go to the company them selfs over seas . Are they cheaper here or over there do you think . Any way it gives me something to go with John Thanks,you got it right about the rain, no need to worry about that ., we don't know what it even feels like out hear mate. Regards Lance.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

I believe Airborne can supply Lynx gear (at least they do on new aircraft).

 

Paul Haines at the Sydney Microlight Centre is (or was) a Communica dealer http://members.ozemail.com.au/~sydmicro/

 

Cheers mate

 

John

 

 

[ZULU1]

Len Birger is our Oz agent, and he is assembling locally our brand Air Magic (South African) and he should be able to help. Contact him on :

 

Len Birger [email protected]

 

Our kit is made for the open cockpit environment unlike the European sourced products. We make helmets, intercoms with auto time muting music as well as our new products have remote PTTs for PPg pilots.

 

ZULU1

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Hello Paul

 

I'm curious which of the european products aren't designed for open cockpit ? I'd be happy to try your system out if you want to loan me a set ?

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

Hi all,

 

A while back there was some interesting and helpful discussion regarding headsets in high noise environments.....refer to the General Discussion section...page 2..."how did you choose your headsets?"

 

Happy hunting.

 

JL

 

 

[ZULU1]

How do you choose headsets

 

Hi All

 

In South Africa and mainly on the coastal regions we fly trikes with goggles and open headsets. This places extreme challenges on intercoms and headets. Most other regions of the world mandate the use of helmets and other safety equipment. Hence any system with VOX is a complete no-no as you get with a trike a vortex wind effect, test it on a motor bike without helmet at say 100kms per hour no problem (we also manufacture Motor cycle security comms helmets). Place the same kit on a trike and you will be deaf in a minute. To get the cocktail "right" is a major mission, we have wind blockers, correct foams,frequency filters, frequency limiting speakers, noise cancelling mics and incidentally any thing that is physically connected to the mic element such a a moulded housing, machined cavity etc. It just does not work. All the so called expensive brands are hopeless. The up side to all the devlopment is they work real good in helmets and extreme noise environments. We had previously tested the major European brands and with their weather they use helmets. Gave up and designed our own.

 

When you make a choice regarding headsets dont look at the price tag, look at what it offers in noise cancelling and see what you require for your application, see its origin and its levels of development. For example you wouldnt buy snow shoes from South Africa would you !! or surfboards in Alaska same rule applies.

 

Please dont see this as an advert but just some simple advice, I am sure that Australia has some fine kit available. Look very careful at the microphone mounting and its design....

 

Cheers Paul

 

 

[Guest danda]

learning

 

Hi all I am rather robust (120kg in fact) would it be possible for me to learn to fly a trike or would the MTOW beat me 2up?

 

Don

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

A lot of schools use the Airborne Edge which has a maximum combined occupant weight of 180 kg so you would need to find a very light instructor.

 

The newer XT has a combined maximum of 200kg but also stipulates a max of 100kg per person so not legal I'm afraid.

 

Re Intercoms - fair point on the helmets Paul. They aren't mandatory (at least in the Uk) but they are universally worn for climatic reasons !

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Dieselten]

The link to Sydney Microlight Centre is outdated, the new URL is:-

 

www.sydneymicrolightcentre.com

 

Comunica intercoms no longer available as the people operating the company in the UK have retired and no-one took it over. Lynx intercoms seem OK (work a little different to Comunica) and interface with either Microair or Xcom radios. Comunica were "hot-mic" units (which I infinitely prefer). In my experience VOX intercoms are mostly a PITA.

 

FWIW, the Xcom radio seems better ergonomically than the Microair. Both approximately the same size physically. Microair seem prone to ignition/alternator noise. My main beef with Lynx is their headsets weigh rather a lot compared to the Comunica/Peltor I am currently using. I believe they have a battery inside the headset, whereas Peltor are powered by the intercom itself.

 

The latest Icom radios are not 12V units but are 7.2V units to make them physically smaller - problem is they lack enough audio drive to operate some intercoms properly. Icom seem determined to keep changing their handheld aviation-band radios regularly with different headset and mic impedances...another PITA for those building/designing intercoms etc. Smaller is not necessarily better, but the Japanese manufacturers will doggedly design radios small enough to operate on a mere 3V and to hell with anyone trying to design or build an intercom to use with the units. The manufacturer is dictating to the consumer what the consumer will buy. That's Japanese corporate thinking and marketing for you.

 

The best Icom radios for intercoms are the A20 and A22, so if you find them on offer, consider buying so they work with some of the more commonly available trike intercoms.

 

Actually, the issue of radio/intercom units for trikes is becoming a rather vexed question. Lynx/Mircoair or Lynx/Xcom? If only Lynx could design and build a light headset, they'd be on awinner. I sometimes do 5 hours flying in a trike a day, and if the helmet and headset is getting heavy after 3 hours, after 5 hours it is a burden I really don't need.

 

 

[Guest Perry]

Folks,

 

We are avid trikers notching up in excess of 100hrs a year for only weekenders. We have attempted Lynx, Microair, Xcom, Clarity Aloft and now Airmagic in the open cockpit arrangement for both two stroke and four stroke Rotaxes.

 

I have chucked my Lynx, Xcom and Microair gear away. I have also chucked my Communica and Aerial Pursuits gear away...In fact if anyone wants to buy it for a fraction of the listed price, you are most welcome to pm me.

 

I spent the money and tried the Airmagic Gear from South Africa. I have employed an Airmagic Chatterbox (size of a two boxes of matches) backed onto a Vertex 710 Spirit handheld with the Airmagic headsets. We also use one of the prototype Airmagic Vee Rabit Antenna. This gear gives us full noise cancelling and 5/5 comms with all GA etc. for upto 300km.

 

We use it for expidition cross country for trips in excess of 5 hours.

 

The radio lasts for 8 hours minimum on its Li-Ion battery and the intercom runs off 4xAAA batteries stored in the pilot's headset. The system lasts for about 100hrs on 4 AAA's!

 

We also use the mutunes input to play our favourite tunes from our MP3. The fader system is perhaps the best we have used ever!

 

The best part of the system is that it did not cost us much - with the radio included I think we got change out of $1300.

 

The gear is rugged, robust and handles rain as we have experienced.

 

I have also chucked my terribly uncomfortable collection of helmets and replaced with goggles as the noise cancelling allows for my wife and I to talk in whispers to each other without intereference whilst on climb out.

 

Regards

 

 

[Admin]

The Vertex 710 unfortunately is illegal to be used in aviation in Australia and there is a $10,000 fine for using one. I tried to get them from the Australian Vertex distributor but he advised me that they will one day get the approval for aviation use but not for some time yet.

 

This is the big problem with buying stuff from overseas - items for use in aviation have to have a certificate of conformity with everything. When I get stuff for the shop from suppliers they always provide me with a statement of conformity for every item in the order. I am not saying that everything in aviation MUST be approved but things especially like radios and radio equipment for example does.

 

It is to do with the dept of communications or something like that and they were down at Avalon this year checking radios etc so in my opinion don't risk it

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Ian, is the Vertex-220 included with that? I had my eye on one of those.

 

 

[Guest Perry]

Ian et al,

 

Fear not as the Airmagic gear works with everything from Icom A4 through to Microair and Xcom. The radio is the preference of the PIC.

 

Regards

 

 

[Dieselten]

Seems like I was in error saying Comunica gear no longer available, the URL is:-

 

http://www.comunica-aviation.co.uk

 

apparently their technician took over the working of the company and they are still making gear, several PDF files to download for catalogues, datasheets etc.

 

 

[ZULU1]

Certified Radios

 

In South Africa (NTCA aircraft registered as the previous LS1 "ZU") the policy is not about which radio but about how the radio and equipment is used. We sometimes do things right here !! This allows the aircraft owner to choose his own kit, if installed incorrectly with a danger factor this is subject to a mod approval scenario, brackets are supplied with the aircraft and approved at source. A annual inspection will find otherwise.

 

I see at present the UK has a similar scenario where the ICOM ICA2/20/3/22/4 series are approved. All these radios (except ICA4) are discontinued. The ICA6/24 series and Vertex Standard are freely available but NOT type approved. They also have no way of at this stage of fast tracking approval..So most of the pilots old toys are broken and left with no option to buy the ICA6/24 series. What next ??

 

The question I ask is:

 

How do you determine; to what guidelines are required to approve a radio for use in Australia, and does each individual radio require a sticker of approval ?

 

The same should technically apply to other non standard "approved" devices, instruments, GPS and so on if this rule applies.

 

With regards to the Vertex standard VXA 220 its a really good radio and also waterproof, similar performance to the VXA300 and the 710. It has a 4 wire connection and a ST adjustment as well which is desirable when hooking up to the common brand intercomms out there. Most older units do not have internal circuitry to limit the ST when the PTT is pressed. This can make you deaf quickly !

 

Maybe Australia has a similar scenario to the UK which really is a problem for the Microlight community ? This; as in the UK will leave a loophole to use whatever radio is currently available ?

 

Paul

 

 

[Admin]

Ian, is the Vertex-220 included with that? I had my eye on one of those.

I don't know Brent but I will ring the distributor tomorrow and find out.

Another thing is that to distribute aviation items in Australia you also need CASA approval. My main supplier has:

 

"achieved CASA Approval for the "Distribution of aircraft components and materials excluding aviation fuels"

 

 

 

This may well be why anything aviation in Australia is marked up so much!

 

 

[Admin]

Ian, is the Vertex-220 included with that? I had my eye on one of those.

Brent - just contacted the distributor and he advises that the 220 is the same as the 710 - not certified for use in Australia as yet.

They also have to be approved for use in Australia by the Australian Communications and Media Authority and also CASA.

 

So I rang them today and found out some more interesting info.

 

Firstly, when you get your radio endorsement this only allows you to use a radio that is fitted in your aircraft and that you are NOT allowed to transmit on a hand held transceiver that is not attached to an aircraft - hmmm, very interesting. This means that I am not allowed to use my Vertex 210 (even though it is an approved transceiver) at the airport talking to the pilot in an aircraft in the air.

 

Every thing that transmits is required to be approved by the ACMA and if it is capable of transmitting on an aviation frequency then the unit has to also be approved by CASA.

 

The standard fine is $10,000 and they the ACMA are very active out there with their receiving vans tracking down illegal broadcasters - so they informed me.

 

Talk about government bureaucracy :confused:

 

 

[Mc Guyver]

Brent - just contacted the distributor and he advises that the 220 is the same as the 710 - not certified for use in Australia as yet.They also have to be approved for use in Australia by the Australian Communications and Media Authority and also CASA.

 

So I rang them today and found out some more interesting info.

 

Firstly, when you get your radio endorsement this only allows you to use a radio that is fitted in your aircraft and that you are NOT allowed to transmit on a hand held transceiver that is not attached to an aircraft - hmmm, very interesting. This means that I am not allowed to use my Vertex 210 (even though it is an approved transceiver) at the airport talking to the pilot in an aircraft in the air.

 

Every thing that transmits is required to be approved by the ACMA and if it is capable of transmitting on an aviation frequency then the unit has to also be approved by CASA.

 

The standard fine is $10,000 and they the ACMA are very active out there with their receiving vans tracking down illegal broadcasters - so they informed me.

 

Talk about government bureaucracy :confused:

So if you have a student doing his first solo or solo consolidation, you must sit in an aircraft and talk him through the landings etc. if neccesary .

 

Certainly not a safe way of operating :;)5:

 

 

[Admin]

It seems that way - unless offcourse you have another type of radio user licence i.e. not just the one you get as an RAAus endorsement.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

There's a link on the RA-Aus website about this:

 

http://www.auf.asn.au/comms/licence.html

 

There is however good news further down that you need to read in 1.2 with regard to the students first solo and school business etc. It is quite clear that you may use the frequency for any operational requirements. I've often wondered about this myself when I've heard (myself included) people transmitting messages about students, lessons, times, etc over the CTAF frequency.

 

Copy from the page:

 

1.1 The aircraft station class licence

 

All operational radio transmitters are required to be licensed by the Australian Communications Authority [ACA]. To avoid the need to license individual aviation radiotelephony transceivers (and other transmitters carried in aircraft such as transponders or emergency position indicating radio beacons [EPIRBs]) the ACA issued the Aircraft Station Class Licence 2001 [ASCL].

 

The ASCL " authorises the operation [by qualified operators] of a range of aeronautical radiocommunications and radionavigation equipment fixed to, or carried on-board, all aircraft including recreational aircraft. (Recreational aircraft include ultralights, trikes, hang gliders, paragliders, gyrocopters, gliders, sailplanes, other like craft and balloons.) Stations operated under the Aircraft Station Class Licence are generally known as Aircraft Stations"

 

Note that an aircraft station may only be operated (i.e. transmitting) when it is on-board an aircraft, thus you cannot operate your handheld transceiver unless you are in an aircraft and identify yourself with that aircraft's station call-sign. If any condition of the ASCL is breached (for example, transmitting on a frequency not encompassed by the class licence) the operator is no longer authorised to operate under the class licence. In this instance, the operator would be liable for prosecution by the ACA.

 

Equipment standards

 

Various equipment compliance requirements, specifications and mandatory Technical Standards apply to radiotelephony equipment intended to be operated in the aircraft station under the ASCL. Only Civil Aviation Safety Authority [CASA] approved fixed installation apparatus may be used

 

An ACA approved and licensed hand-held radiotelephone may be used by pilots of aeroplanes not exceeding 544 kg MTOW (or 614 kg for a two-seat seaplane) operating only in Class G airspace: provided that the equipment is able to be operated without adversely affecting the safety of the aircraft.

 

The standard for non-fixed-installation equipment performance is that set out in the Australia/New Zealand Standard 4583:1999 [and later].

 

Ground stations

 

The backbone high frequency – HF – and very high frequency – VHF – civil aviation radiotelephone communications network is owned and operated by Airservices Australia. In addition regular public transport companies have their own communications networks; similarly other ground stations may be licensed by ACA for operation in the aviation VHF band by aero clubs, flying schools and parachute clubs; or by other organisations providing an aerodrome Unicom service. In the regulations such ground stations are called aeronautical stations. The military aviation network utilises ultra high frequency – UHF – at military airfields.

 

1.2 Communication limitations

 

Communications between aircraft stations and between aircraft stations and aeronautical stations

 

A person may operate an aircraft station to communicate with another aircraft station or with an aeronautical station only if the communication relates to:

 

• the safe and expeditious conduct of flight; or
   
   
  
• an emergency; or
   
   
  
• a matter that relates to the particular occupation or industry in which the aircraft, to which the aircraft station relates, is engaged.
   
  

 

Communications between aircraft stations and aeronautical stations

 

A person who is a member of an aero club, a flying school or a parachute club may operate an aircraft station to communicate with an aeronautical station for the particular activity only if:

 

• the aeronautical station is owned and operated by an aero club, or a flying school, or a parachute club; and
   
   
  
• the communication occurs when the aircraft to which the aircraft station relates is engaged on a flight to or from the aerodrome at which the aeronautical station is located.
   
  

 

 

 

 

[Admin]

thanks Brent - so a way around this for me to use my Vertex 210 on the ground at an airstrip is to register me, myself and I as a club and presto - I'm legal ;).

 

Some of these rules that we live by date back to the early ages. I heard of one that is still in the traffic books in Victoria that if an automobile comes across a horse and cart in a street and the horse is jumpy then the automobile must be placed to the side of the carriageway and hidden. If the horse is still jumpy then the automobile must be dismantled and relocated to a location which will enable the horse to settle down and pass ;)