Guest drizzt1978 Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Must admit, I love 4587....kind of have a thing for her!!, the only time I have had a bouce issue was when the stall went of about 30cm off the deck and i panicked, I dont think she likes any type of glide aproach unless you have a strong head wind, lands great with a touch more power than the rest of the 170s?
Gibbo Posted February 8, 2009 Author Posted February 8, 2009 I have a strong emotional attachment to that aircraft. I did 90% of my training in it and had the displeasure of my flying test in 'marginal' conditions. Every aircraft has it own personality and 87 still has a some of the old fight still in it. Gibbo
Adrian Lewer Posted February 14, 2009 Posted February 14, 2009 Hi all, I have done a fair bit of flying in a J170. They float unfortunately but this is great for the beginner. I find most 'Jabs like a Full stall Landing including the LSA and J160. You Approach at full flap at around 60 Kts and when you flair you just keep holding off untill you are at the 30 odd cm from the ground (like the person in the last couple of posts mentioned) and just keep holding more and more elevator in untill the stall warning goes nuts and keep feeding more elevator (without gaining height) and voala you have a great landing and will in most cases get rid of the nasty nose wheel sensitivity people talk about. Just how I do it and it works.
maxamos Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 If you are coming in side slipped , with an indicated 60 kn, then this is only indicated of course due to the pitot being affected by the side slip attitude, so you will more than likely be doing a little more. Combined with a little bit of error on the airspeed, maybe indicating 61 or 62, real airspeed may actually be closer towards 65. Just another factor to through into the mix , or my TCW !!
Simonflyer Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Ive found that my landings are equivalent to my golf swing...I can play five months of reasonable golf and then go out and play a stinker.. Today was that day... On my first landing, i was too high on final, so i made an early decision to go around and sorted out the approach a lot better on the second run.. The conditions were very strange(Smoke Haze/thermals/variable wind and alien spacecraft), on the approach the plane was acting as if it had a 15 kt xwind from the left, but the wind indicator was pointing the other way:loopy:..I could not get the thing to descend (I think its called Locksley Lift)and when i finally did descend i experienced wind shear at about 40 ft which i manged to catch at about 10ft, but of course i grabbed too hard didnt i, and up i went..I manged to get it down ok by holding off in the end, but my pulse was ticking pretty well.. On the way home in the car i was kicking myself, but really i didnt do too much wrong apart from over correcting, and i got us down safely, and with no damage to me, pax or the plane...All i need to do is keep practicing in the cct as much as possible in as many conditions as possible and it will become more and more natural.Most of my landings aren't bad at all I guess my point is that if you have done a lot of flying and you generally put it down pretty well then one mess up out of many is ok..There was no injury other than to the pride, and the only way to build confidence is to practice... p.s having an understanding of the aerodynamics helps me a lot(yes im a bit of a nerd), and the book "stick and rudder" although being a million years old has some really good stuff in it on landings.
Guest drizzt1978 Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Hi all, I have done a fair bit of flying in a J170. They float unfortunately but this is great for the beginner. I find most 'Jabs like a Full stall Landing including the LSA and J160. You Approach at full flap at around 60 Kts and when you flair you just keep holding off untill you are at the 30 odd cm from the ground (like the person in the last couple of posts mentioned) and just keep holding more and more elevator in untill the stall warning goes nuts and keep feeding more elevator (without gaining height) and voala you have a great landing and will in most cases get rid of the nasty nose wheel sensitivity people talk about.Just how I do it and it works. What you dont want when doing this is a nice sudden blast of wind head on...up you go oops down you go....(if you are to slow to get on the throttle) the technique you speak of is used in GA in heavy aircraft...many instructors dont recomend it in an ultralight because it can get you in to trouble...my instructor says the only time you want to hear the stall is as you touch....on a very very very calm day!!!;););) with no wind for a 100km radius!! Funny tho it was how I was first taught, then changed instructors and got a different view!!! :hittinghead: <---- left me confused for a long time!!
turboplanner Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Adrian you'll be in for a big surprise doing that when the 170 wing finds even a puff of wind, sometimes from the centre, worse from the side.
Gibbo Posted February 18, 2009 Author Posted February 18, 2009 I find the heavy transport landing approach great in a cross wind. Half flaps and a very long approach in a Jab 160 @ 67-72kns. I crab it down on the rudder to about 10 feet from the ground. As I transition into line with the runway I keep just enough pressure on the alerons to keep the wing against the wind. A single wheel touchdown transiting to a two wheeler in a fairly firm manner (no stall warning!). I always keep 'some' power on till I am about to touch the wheels down. A nice sharp cherp from the mains is a nice sound on a windy day. I maintain a strong back pressure on the elevator to aid with the breaking and keep the COG over the main wheels. Directional control is maintained thru the rudder or if the x-winds are strong enough reducing pressure on the elevator earlier to help maintain direction control via the front wheel. Remember to keep the wing down at all times. You really need to remember that the center of gravity can move forwards in a hurry if the front wheel has to much weight on it. Learnt my lesson early when I still had an instructor to clean my mess up and do the swearing.
turboplanner Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Refer Post #1 You must be pleased with the improvement.
Gibbo Posted February 19, 2009 Author Posted February 19, 2009 Found this following a link in another thread. Old but good. Crosswind T.O. and Land Seems to have some good content.
Gibbo Posted February 19, 2009 Author Posted February 19, 2009 Refer Post #1You must be pleased with the improvement. Never pleased with my landings... I still can't improve on my first solo landing at lilydale no matter how much I practice.
ahlocks Posted February 19, 2009 Posted February 19, 2009 Oh bugga!:raise_eyebrow: A perfect reason to go fly some more...;)
Guest Maj Millard Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 ahlocks, I used a particular method of crosswind landing approach for some time until somebody showed me a better way, and I've used that ever since. I used to come in alternatly dropping the upwind wing as gusts required. When the wing wasn't down I'd be lineing up on the runway as best I could. Sounds a bit uncordinated ?...well it was. Instead of doing the two step shuffle all the way in, I now just drop the into-wind wing down, and keep the plane going straight by holding in a required amount of 'top' rudder all the way down. Much more stable, and nicely adjustable all the way in. Obviosly you straighten things out just prior to flare. Give it a shot and see what you think. It's really like a little mini-slip is how I would describe it. As opposed to a real heavy slip where you would also loose a lot of height quickly if you wanted to. And oh even really experienced pilots go through 'bad landing' periods sometimes, but you get over them.
ahlocks Posted February 26, 2009 Posted February 26, 2009 Umm,... Ok...:raise_eyebrow: ...This another reason to go fly some more? :big_grin::thumb_up:
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