towing a hanglider.

[gofastclint]

Down the track I plan on buying a J120 and instructing students. One of my mates flys hangliders and was wondering about towing him while I have no students. What main factors are there to consider? Does the J120 fly slow enough to tow hangliders? I only plan to tow if certified to do so.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

What main factors are there to consider?

Safety & legality

 

Does the J120 fly slow enough to tow hangliders?

ask your mate what his max speed is

 

I only plan to tow if certified to do so.

Buy one of these LiteFlite - Home of the Dragonfly

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Tomo]

My instructor can do hang glider towing endorsements...which I'm thinking wouldn't be a bad thing to do down the track.

 

He uses the Dragonfly I'm pretty sure, amazing little aircraft, can fly at walking speed, land and take off in very little distance...

 

 

[Harthy]

The J120 is much to quick for towing up a hang glider, You will need something that will fly safely under 45kts. The Dragon fly or trikes are good choices for towing hang gliders, other wise you will see some very shocked looks on the faces of the hang glider pilots.

 

Harthy

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

The guy who taught me to fly trikes has a towing endorsement and often used to tow hang gliders. As I understand it the trike was configured with the slowest wing Airborne make (wizzard) and even then the effort to control the trike was significant, given that the slower you go the more energy you need to put into the wing via arms to make it turn, also the response is sluggish.

 

From Airbornes site the speed range for the wizzard is 38-45knots and the reality of trike flying is that operating at either end of the range can be hard work.

 

If the 120 can also work comfortably in the 38-45kt range, which I also understand feels like mach1 in a hang glider..... then other aspects aside yes......in reality no.

 

Andy

 

 

[gofastclint]

wow, the dragon fly looks tops, whats the fly away price?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

i have seen one in the Moyes factory at Botany looks great with the turbo charged rotax engine

 

I think they are made in the US and are used soley for towing HGs and are under the HGFA rules.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Got a ride in a Dragonfly at Carson City Nevada once. It only had a 582 in it then, but it was towing Hgliders up to a high site on the Eastern Sierra Navada mountains. They would launch up there all day, and land back on top, then fly back down to the low site at the end of day. The Dragonfly was real busy, and the bloke flying it made a heap of dough each morning. He was towing them off of a small wheeled dolly.

 

They are a pretty snappy little plane, flew a bit like the Drifter, and were custom built for the job. Ol Bill may have got the idea from the early V-tailed Maxair Drifters (called Hummers then). They also had no pod, and were often used for towing hangliders aloft. They were pretty good at it also.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

There was a photo in pacific flyer a few years back from the glenn innes area of a series three scout with a rotax 503 and a beefed up tail fitted with a y bridal for towing HGs. the amount of power for non towing flights would have been exilerating.

 

 

[BLA82]

wow, the dragon fly looks tops, whats the fly away price?

Gees GFC you must have plans for a big hanger, first it was an overpowered Jab, than you were after a turbofan and now a Jab to tow HG:hittinghead:

 

 

[gofastclint]

Gees GFC you must have plans for a big hanger, first it was an overpowered Jab, than you were after a turbofan and now a Jab to tow HG:hittinghead:

I will need a big hanger for sure, with my dad looking for a kit to build (RV-8 seems like the one), my brother has plans for a micro and I have set the goal to become an instructor.

 

My wife has given the ok for a Jab at the end of 09, woohoo!

 

The jet is going to be made from hot wired foam about 2 foot long with an electric ducted fan, and if it flys I will fill the rest in on solid works and then see if it flys on a sim, then see if i can get people interested.

 

As for the dragon fly, seems like a good investment taking into account how many people hang glide and at $50 per tow, it will pay well if a glider club shows interest and you put in a full days towing.

 

 

[Guest ROM]

A J120 at 55 kts is a real handful if a bit of turbulence is around let alone trying to hang a hang glider on the back.

 

That would probably kill you both if you tried it.

 

Clean stall of the J120 is given as 51 kts and obviously a little less if there is only the pilot on board so even at 60 kts towing speed with the jerks and tugs of the hang glider behind and the very low inertia of the light weight J120 you are likely to slow down momentarily and that spells real trouble.

 

Then to get the climb on the Jab wing profile at low speed you will need a small amount of flap and up goes your drag.

 

Then you have the problem of the weight of the tail hook and the rear fuselage strengthening and consequent extra weight at the rear so you are now starting to look at C of G problems.

 

Then there is the lack of power to haul both of you off the ground particularly when the hang glider at speed develops a lot of drag.

 

Drag rises at roughly the square of the speed, ie; twice the speed = four times the drag.

 

That is rough I know and a lot of other factors come into it but a hang glider at 60 knots is going to be one hell of a drag to tow and the J120 with 85 HP won't come at that.

 

Towing slippery gliders with the J230 needs 70 knots and then some flap as well to get it stable and climbing and that is one up and part fuel so the wing loading will be lighter than a J120 with a similar load set-up.

 

If we look at glide ratios , the modern composite gliders with glide ratios of over 50 to 1 are maybe 3 times as efficient aerodynamically as a hang glider at 17 to one and they will be doing this at twice the speed of a hangie.

 

It keeps the J230 driver very busy in front when there is a rough air tow as the lack of inertia of the J230 creates a lot of pitch changes while towing to try and maintain a reasonably constant airspeed.

 

With some luck, a hangie towing behind a J120 may be able to fly a short distance away from the crash site!

 

 

[gofastclint]

A J120 at 55 kts is a real handful if a bit of turbulence is around let alone trying to hang a hang glider on the back.That would probably kill you both if you tried it.

Clean stall of the J120 is given as 51 kts and obviously a little less if there is only the pilot on board so even at 60 kts towing speed with the jerks and tugs of the hang glider behind and the very low inertia of the light weight J120 you are likely to slow down momentarily and that spells real trouble.

 

Then to get the climb on the Jab wing profile at low speed you will need a small amount of flap and up goes your drag.

 

Then you have the problem of the weight of the tail hook and the rear fuselage strengthening and consequent extra weight at the rear so you are now starting to look at C of G problems.

 

Then there is the lack of power to haul both of you off the ground particularly when the hang glider at speed develops a lot of drag.

 

Drag rises at roughly the square of the speed, ie; twice the speed = four times the drag.

 

That is rough I know and a lot of other factors come into it but a hang glider at 60 knots is going to be one hell of a drag to tow and the J120 with 85 HP won't come at that.

 

Towing slippery gliders with the J230 needs 70 knots and then some flap as well to get it stable and climbing and that is one up and part fuel so the wing loading will be lighter than a J120 with a similar load set-up.

 

If we look at glide ratios , the modern composite gliders with glide ratios of over 50 to 1 are maybe 3 times as efficient aerodynamically as a hang glider at 17 to one and they will be doing this at twice the speed of a hangie.

 

It keeps the J230 driver very busy in front when there is a rough air tow as the lack of inertia of the J230 creates a lot of pitch changes while towing to try and maintain a reasonably constant airspeed.

 

With some luck, a hangie towing behind a J120 may be able to fly a short distance away from the crash site!

Then spare cash on the side for towing with a J120 is out.

 

I wonder what is a good flying related job while there are no students around. I've heard about pipeline inspection, but all those jobs would be filled.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

One of the Tecnam P92 models is set up to tow gliders, and with the 912s 100hp also has the power. Believe they use them in Kiwi land to tow gliders.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Sheep mustering Gofast, there is a big demand, but do double the low flying training (GA) first.

 

 

[Guest ROM]

A lot of the European ultra lights can be set up for glider towing and a few them can actually do it OK.

 

The Sportstar is one but with the necessary VP prop mounted, the Sportstar at the initiation of the T/O roll with a tight rope will just sit there with it's prop spinning away and completely stalled.

 

A stretchable tow rope had to be used to allow the tug to actually start rolling before the glider started to move to counter this prop stall.

 

The Slovakian built Eurofox has a specially modified tail dragger for glider towing.

 

It has the large diameter, geared down, three bladed VP prop on the Rotax and extra radiators for engine temp control on tows.

 

Temp control can be a weak point on the Rotaxes

 

An example of this aircraft is now towing at Tocumal.

 

The performance of the Eurofox for glider towing is quite good and close to the J230's performance with it's fixed prop.

 

The advantage of the Eurofox is it's ability to tow at lot lower speeds than the J230, down to 55 knots or so.

 

The modern gliders then become a bit uncomfortable at these slower towing speeds and 60 to 70 knots is far more comfortable.

 

We did the first ever tows with a tail dragger Eurofox at Horsham.

 

The tail dragger tow version hadn't even been test flown in Slovakia so it was all very interesting.

 

The reasons for this are that a couple of the early Eurofoxes were test flown in Slovakia and when inspected by customs were found to have grass and organic matter on the under-cart and around the aircraft so a very expensive quarantine clean up of the aircraft had to be carried out.

 

Now all Eurofoxes are brought in as pristine from the factory and unflown.

 

As we tow at Horsham with a J230 it was interesting to get the comparisons between tow aircraft types.

 

If Jabiru would approve and fit an inflight V/P prop to the 3300 engine, it would make an adequate tug into quite a good one plus having the advantage of a very versatile aircraft with good load capacity, lots of room and good cross country speeds due to the ability to vary the prop to suit the immediate needs.

 

Unfortunately we may have to wait a while for that to happen.

 

Just be very wary about all sorts of claims on glider towing abilitiies from a lot of these European manufacturers as the cool European conditions are a far cry from our hotter and rougher Australian conditions.