Rotax 912 ULS vs Jabiru 3300

[wizzard1964]

jabiru 2200 = 85 hpR1150 =95 hp

r1200 = 120 hp

.........Oh... what about a Jabiru 3300? is it too big?

 

 

[Valdiviano]

open to ideas

 

 

[eightyknots]

I fitted a shroud over part of the radiator and ducted it air through an in-or-to waste valve. It worked a treat, no chance of ex gas, and no need ........wait for it........wait for it..........to........wait for it.........SUIT UP, before flying.

Hi Qwerty,

Could you give us some more details how you get heat from the exhaust shroud without danger of carbon monoxide poisoning? Thanks.

 

 

[Spin]

Qwerty don't live here no more:censored:. If I understand him right though, he wasn't drawing warm air off the exhaust at all, rather off the radiator. Less efficient I would have thought, but much safer no doubt.

 

 

[facthunter]

Heat from radiator.

 

The efficiency or otherwise (from thru radiator) wouldn't matter as it is going to atmosphere any how. The usual method (from shrouding part of the exhaust) is pretty dangerous unless checked for carbon monoxide leakage, but can be very effective. When the heater is not on the shrouded part runs hotter because there is no air flowing over it , so it should be vented and not just shut off. Nev

 

 

[wanabigaplane]

exhaust free heating

 

In my Tornado the water radiator is duplicated in the cabin space just beyond my feet. I can switch the fan behind it, or close the water off. I certainly need it up around the Snowy Mountains.

 

Jack. :thumb_up::thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Ok I see your points about heaters in the colder areas. taking hot air off the radiaters sounds like a good idea to me and should be safe re: carbon monoxide problems..............Maj...

 

 

[eightyknots]

In my Tornado the water radiator is duplicated in the cabin space just beyond my feet. I can switch the fan behind it, or close the water off. I certainly need it up around the Snowy Mountains.Jack. :thumb_up::thumb_up:

When you say "duplicated" do you mean you have a small radiator ~from the engine~ in the cabin (like a 'heater core' in a car), piped from the Rotax?

If so, I am interested how much extra weight this would be: any idea?

 

 

[wanabigaplane]

Duplicated

 

That's right. Being a tandem pusher, the normal shrouded exhaust would be harder to implement. All I am concerned about is that it works, and that I know it to be exhaust free. Jack.

 

 

[eightyknots]

That sounds great. I like the idea of a reduced carbon monoxide risk too.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

you could use one from a car heater. there about 6 inch square. The old types were brass but the newer ones might be aluminium.

 

 

[facthunter]

CO poisoning.

 

A few people have died from CO poisonong in Kombi vans. It's pretty insidious so a good monitor would be a must unless you have a good way of checking for any leakage in the exhaust system. You can get it from the exhaust itself as the interior of the cabin is below atmospheric, so if the exhaust exits in such a position that some of it can enter the cabin (Even back at the elevator cutouts) you can be in trouble. Nev

 

 

[biggles5128]

Maybe with the Jab engine you could fit a heating element and plug it into a pwer point before you start it. like you do with your cars.ozzie

I am about to move my aircraft to Glen Innes which is about 3500' above sea level. I spoke at length with the local aero club who fly a J230 all year round. My concern was starting in cold weather. It would regularly be 0 to minus 0 in the winter. They use a little electric heater that blows warm air through the intake and across the cylinders, about 5 minutes per side as you are doing your pre flight and then no issues with starting. I am building a new hangar and wont have power connected. Have just tried the heater being powered by a 2kva generator, works well so all up not an expensive excercise. On away trips will just have to plan my stops and departure times if I want early cold morning starts.

 

 

[facthunter]

Cold starting Jabiru.

 

This has been dealt with at some length and the concensus seems to be that the factory recommended enlargement of the choke jet and the correct starting technique fixes this OK. ( Plus the earth wire to the end of the starter motor). Bit off topic, but maybe appropriate.? Nev

 

 

[eightyknots]

Extremely dangerous basis for a heater and I've never been keen on such ever since.

Last Friday I was at 4,500 ft in a J160 with an OAT of close to zero. Heater on and it was very comfortable in the cabin. However, frequent checks of the CO monitor to make sure it wasn't trying to tell me something. Still not relaxed about having to trust a cheap CO monitor for stayin' alive.

Precisely, BlackRod. I feel unconfortable this kind of arrangement as well: exhaust shroud heaters sound like they are almost accidents waiting to happen.

 

you could use one from a car heater. there about 6 inch square. The old types were brass but the newer ones might be aluminium.

That sounds like a much safer idea: a car wrecker is probably willing to part with a little heater core for ten or twenty dollars. In addition to the heater core, all that would then be required are some hoses, hose clamps, a heater valve and extra coolant.

 

My only concern is, the aviation enemy: how much extra weight will this add to the ultralight?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

2 to 3 kilo max. instead of a fan just pipe some air in.

 

 

[facthunter]

weight of heater.

 

If that ozzie. I reckon a trans/power steering oil cooler would do it and the extra coolant would weigh more. You would have to plumb it into the Rotax system carefully so as not to upset the original settings. You would tend to overcool the engine, especially as the ambients would already be low if you needed a heater. Nev

 

 

[HEON]

Super Petrel has coolent radiator with fan which comes from the computer industry that is under 1kg (plus 1/4in pipes and fluid). Not installed yet thus do not know effect but the principle looks sound. Can supply maker if interest. Please PM.

 

 

[Thruster87]

Precisely, BlackRod. I feel unconfortable this kind of arrangement as well: exhaust shroud heaters sound like they are almost accidents waiting to happen.

 

That sounds like a much safer idea: a car wrecker is probably willing to part with a little heater core for ten or twenty dollars. In addition to the heater core, all that would then be required are some hoses, hose clamps, a heater valve and extra coolant.

 

My only concern is, the aviation enemy: how much extra weight will this add to the ultralight?

They have been using exhaust shroud heaters for example on the DC3/C47 for over 60yrs and we still use them on our C47's [ HARS ] Cheers

 

 

[jetjr]

Most smaller aircraft use exhaust shroud for cabin heat dont they?

 

In Jabiru it goes around a straight section of pipe, not the muffler, air is ducted in from front of cowl. Exhaust is stainless steel so reduced chance of failure.

 

Get a proper electronic CO alarm - the card ones are a waste of time. Ian might have a couple left

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Someone makes an alternative for the Rotax that uses the liquid cooling as heat source: Aircraft cabin heater, Rotax 912 cabin heater.

 

 

[Sloper]

l have a little plastic and aluminium l was going to fit, will post some pics over the weekend.

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[Guest disperse]

Just wondering if it would be possible to use the oil in jabs for heating. ie: A second small cooler and a on/off valve.

 

Just a random thought

 

 

[eightyknots]

Hi Bruce (Sloper),

 

Did you manage to take those pictures?

 

 

[Sloper]

Oh Bother l forgot but this is it.

 

12V Heater / Demister CHEV FORD HOLDEN VALIANT - eBay Other, Air Conditioning, Heating, Car, Truck Parts, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 07-Oct-10 21:12:33 AEDST)

 

The front comes off leaving a rectanguler opening if you dont want ducts.

 

l have its big brother as well, good for cooking :)

 

regards Bruce