912 Engine mounting kit for Jabiru.

[HEON]

David, I could not agree with you more. To me a 170 with a 912 would be a great aircraft...especially the "new" longer nose/bigger tail one with in flight adjustable prop.

 

My only reservation in doing it now is that I would have to build it; and as 19- rego MTOW is 540-544kg not the 24-rego 600kg (plus a SMALL problem of my wife). Also do not like LSA regs...UL much better.

 

One with U/S engine/minor damage at the right price???

 

When we get 600kg it will be hard to pass up. If ever factory built probably a done deal!

 

 

[Guest burbles1]

I wouldn't fancy a J170 at 600kg MTOW with just the 80hp Jab engine on a warmish day.

Well I've flown the J170 LSA based at Cooma Polo Flat. At altitude, two up, it is mighty slow in climbing - at a rough guess maybe 400fpm.

I don't think Jabiru should improve their 2200 engine - just give people the choice of different FWF kits and resize the cowling to suit Rotax, ULPower, ...

 

 

[fly_tornado]

sounds like a good idea. oil cooled would have been a simpler option.

 

 

[Dieselten]

Let us suppose for aminute that Jabiru offered a choice of engines; Rotax or Jabiru. Here are some possible scenarios:-

 

Case 1: Jabiru is overwhelmed with orders for 912-powered aircraft; they cannot keep up with demand. Lengthy delays, resulting in frustrated customers. Not good, for anyone.

 

Case 2: Customers overwhelmingly prefer the Rotax engine to the Jabiru 2200. The company that manufactures the 220, Camit, suffers a huge loss of business, affecting availability of the 3300 engine. Rotax sell lots of engines, Jabiru struggles to keep up with the demand. Not so good for Jabiru, great for Rotax, not good for Camit.

 

Case 3: Customers prefer the Jabiru engine over the Rotax. Jabiru sell lots of aircraft and engines (good for them), Camit make lots of engines (good for them, too) and Rotax don't give a damn because they're so flat out making 912/914 engines for General Atomics to use on the smaller Predator UAVs a small customer like Jabiru doesn't matter anyway.

 

Now, given that Camit needs Jabiru and Jabiru need Camit, is Jabiru likely to go down this road and offer a choice of engines? Unlikely. Each needs the other, each feeds the other. We could say both companies are (without prejudice) "co-dependent".

 

From this we may infer that a choice of a different manufacturer's engine on the Jabiru airframes that currently use the 2200 engine is not in the forseeable future - unless shrimps learn to whistle. If you buy a Jabiru airframe, it will (99.9% probability) have a Jabiru engine bolted on the front. You just have to live with it, learn its strengths and weaknesses, and have a good contingency-fund in case it lets go prematurely.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

hmmm not likely

 

 

[HEON]

BlackRod has hit the nail on the head! Very few would want a Rotax engine in a Jab IF the Jab did what a Rotax does...I do not think it currently does.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

And pigs will fly.......................how many more years do they want to sort out an engine with many inherent design problems, they'd be better off starting from scratch wouldn't they ??.......................................................Maj...

 

 

[johnm]

I think Maj Millard should be banned from all comment up Jab engines ! ................ nevertheless Heon - or for that matter does anyone else ...... think a Jab engine will ever be as good as a Rotax engine ?

 

JM

 

 

[HEON]

Yes it could be...but it needs work! And has for a long time.

 

 

[Cosmick]

Sorry about bringing up a old forum, but I can remember a forum that spoke about firewall forward "kit" (non Jab) for Rotax fitting into a Jab.

 

Can not locate it. Can anyone put me on to that forum, or person/persons who know about "the kit" (I think it was from Sydney area)

This is the other thread HEONhttp://www.recreationalflying.com/showthread.php/119099-Firewall-forward-kit-for-Jabiru-Rotax-912

 

 

[Kenchhidu]

I think Maj Millard should be banned from all comment up Jab engines !

Hear Hear!

 

 

[winsor68]

I think Maj Millard should be banned from all comment up Jab engines ! ................ nevertheless Heon - or for that matter does anyone else ...... think a Jab engine will ever be as good as a Rotax engine ?JM

Oh for God's sake!!! Get real people... Just stick your fingers in your ears if you wan't and it should all just go away... but do it to your detriment... The growing group of pilots and instructors who are refusing to fly behind the product must all be imagining things...lol

 

 

[Kenchhidu]

Oh for God's sake!!! Get real people... Just stick your fingers in your ears if you wan't and it should all just go away... but do it to your detriment... The growing group of pilots and instructors who are refusing to fly behind the product must all be imagining things...lol

Look, its another rotax flyer talking about how bad the jab is.

 

 

[winsor68]

I've flown a J170... It scared me.

 

 

[Kenchhidu]

I've flown a J170... It scared me.

Was that the Engine or the Airframe? Unless the prop stopped there's nothing to fear.

 

 

[winsor68]

A bit of both... I did my first 15 or so hours in a J170. I almost gave it away because of the stress of knowing I was flying it in the morning... Granted the field we were operating out of was not very long but it was mushy and wallowy on takeoff, lucky to climb at 500 fpm and required use of carby heat regularly.

 

The Texan and Sav S are a revelation them... I have heard it said that it is a good training aircraft- in my opinion their may be a weak case in favour for students completely new to flying... but not this little black duck. My early years were spent in wooden Kookaburra's that would make many a pilot shudder these days but compared to that Jab they were a bloody limo!

 

 

[Kenchhidu]

Uneven CHT/EGT and general cooling issues

It's been said before, but Garry Morgan makes something to fix that!

 

 

[HEON]

Garry may...why not the factory?

 

We know the six is a hard/or no starter on cold days. Factory "fix" is to install a Anderson plug to attach aux power. An example of the factory not addressing and solving a known problem but "papering" over it. Is this a possible solution to them stopping in flight...not being able to be started in the first place?

 

Thanks Cosmick for the forum link

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

... think a Jab engine will ever be as good as a Rotax engine ?

582 or 912 ?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

QUOTE: Johnm...." I think Maj Millard should be banned from all comment on Jab engines."

 

Go ahead and kill the messager ?...............It really wouldn't bother me in the least !!

 

However the squeaky wheel gets the grease, and I can tell you that Jab has got their arxx into gear since I, and others, have been highlighting their many long running problems over many years now.

 

Or maybe you'd rather just stick your heads back in the sand ??..............................................................................................Maj....

 

 

[johnm]

aaaaahhhhhh the human race

 

just remember if it wasn't for electrcity we'd all be watching television in the dark

 

when I said Maj Millard should be banned from all comment about Jab engines ! - there was an 'apostrophe' - think that's how you spell it - that little line and dot means a lot ! (thats another line with a dot)

 

Maj - you keep on keeping on - there's lot out there that hang on to all you say - me included (plus all the other wise owls who impart what they know)

 

as for others - flying off the handle - w'ell ............................... we all do it ! (thats another line with a dot)

 

good website and good freedom of speech (no law against 'free speech yet' !)

 

JM

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Johnm, I do not expect any more respect on this forum, than any other knowledgable poster. I have enjoyed blackrods, and all other inputs on this interesting subject. A subject which I feel should be openly discussed, as it involves one of two of our most widely used powerplants, in this country.

 

Free speach is indeed a great thing, and this site does a great job of providing it. Our fathers and those before them had no such capability, other then gathering under the old tree for a chat, every now and then.

 

Some compare the Jab vs Rotax thing to the Holden vs Ford thing, which is so far off the mark, it's not funny. Both of those brands do enjoy some good degree of reliability, and both Holden and Ford powerplants have gained a good degree of common acceptance over the years that they have been around.

 

Jab engines do have demonstrated long-term problems, and they need to be fixed....period. People, friends and pilots have been hurt, both financially and physically, and we Australians are known internationally for doing better.

 

I do not have anything against Jabaru or Jab owners in particular, and I don't make a point of knocking their aeroplanes. It hurts me to knock their engines, as I know I'm probabily upsetting fellow flyers like myself, which is really not my intention. However I hate an unreliable aero engine with a passion, and I see them as nothing but dangerous, for us as users, and for the reputation of our sport.

 

Only by someone making some noise (us!),will the factory hopefully take notice, and rectify the problems. That simply is my agenda. They can do a lot better by us.

 

Thanks for your imput, we all are welcome to our opinions.......................................................................Maj...

 

 

[eastmeg2]

Quote: "Some compare the jab vs Rotax thing to the Holden vs Ford thing which is so far off the mark, it's not funny."

 

I always thought it was more like a Holden vs BMW thing. ;-))

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Don't push it Eastmeg............................(Joke,joke !)..........................................................Funny Maj...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

And just to show I'm not totally anti jab, I did sign out a J230 a couple of weeks ago (24-7215), with a 3300 engine. And in the morning (Sunday by the way) I will drive 100kls round trip to do a compression check for a friend on a 2.2............................................................................................Maj...