Ya know what i hate??

[motzartmerv]

G'day.. I have spent the last 6 months sucking up to the Nowra approach controllers. Always rining before flight, good radio procedures, accurate flying and all that so's not to breach clearance heights etc. They never used to even let RAA acft into thier airspace.. Anyway, i just got back from a NAV yesterday and heard someone in an RAA acft call like this..

 

"Nowra controller. 3xx7 downwind on my private strip near XXXXX for a touch and go"

 

Approach responded..

 

"Acft calling, say your aircraft type, pob, confirm you are on the ground, and squark 3626.."

 

" im a recreational acft, and my callsign was 3xx7 not 3626"

 

Approach (sounding very annoyed)

 

" I heard your ID, squark 3626 on your transponder"

 

"I don't have one of those"

 

" Clearance is not available without a transponder in a military control zone. Just confirm you are on the ground"

 

"No mate, im on base at my private strip."

 

Apporach responded,

 

"You should not be airbourne without a clearance, you have breached the controlled airspace, you need to get a clearance before you takeoff."

 

RAA acft,

 

"ok, ill land"

 

"3xx7, say again your acft type, when you land call the approach commander by phone."

 

Nothing else was said by the pilot.. They tried a few times to raise him to no evail..

 

I was very very annoyed, after all the good work we have been doing, trying to get rid of missconceptions amoungst the controllers at nowra, and some dude has a shocka like that..

 

Please mate, if you know who it was, give nowra a call and let em know what happened, bite the bullet.. I jumped on the phone and let them know the acft was not associated with our club at all, and the guy said he was about to call us and find out who it was....gggrrrrr....

 

 

[gofastclint]

Sounds like someone needs a hole punched in their licence.

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

Hey Merv, did you contact RAAus about it at all? Is there anything that they can do? Something like that could undo a lot of hard work done by RAAus. It's really disappointing to hear that something like that has happened.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

No i didn't, im sure they will be informed by the powers that be at the base. I'd prefer education rather then retaliation.. But im sure he will be getting a please explain letter..ive had one myself a few years ago when i strayed into richmond by about 1/2 a mile. Syd radar were straight onto me and i fessed up and gave details, and a lengthy letter to casa explaining how i came to get myself off course. Also a phone call to ric tower and the controller at syd radar to appolagise..

 

Inadvertant VCA's happen, but this was appauling..

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Who trains these people in the first place, and then gives them a license ?. I am sure Nowra Twr had a fair idea of his location and 'airstrip', so I'm sure he'll be getting a visit......................

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea, he told them where his strip is.. And his rego in his initial call.. Can't believe he'd be so silly, his strip is inside the CTA, surely he'd know the rules...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I'd say he's hung himself..........................

 

 

[Guest Cloudsuck]

Frustrates the hell out of me. Thankfully the trend seems to be toward good operators / airmanship but there are still plenty of cowboys out there.

 

 

[shags_j]

But you also get really bad radio calls from ppl and GFPT pilots. I hear them all the time at archerfield.

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

Agreed on the bad radio calls (seems like a lot of people start transmitting before they think about what they are going to say), but this is more a case of a bloke in a rec. aircraft, being somewhere he shouldn't have been with apparently no idea of what he was doing wrong.

 

 

[Gibbo]

It's amazing where you can go IF you do the correct thing.

 

Most controlled airspace is accessable with Prior notice via telephone (and certain timings) BUT it will only take one idiot to stuff it up for all of us. Oakley tower can be brillant if the correct channels are followed and some 'not so common' manners are present.

 

I've had some good experiances but I have also copped some attitude simply because someone in the past did the wrong thing. We need to be very careful of our image as a whole as some of the GA/RPT attitudes towards are not pleasent. A couple of them should have been reported but the effort outweights the results.

 

'I' as a matter of course will hold at 10 miles whenever a RPT is in the circuit and will always give way to them. $thou per hour vers $80 per hour.

 

.

 

Gibbo

 

 

[Chird65]

Merv, as a trainer could the following happen?

 

Pilot gets a certificate but no endorsements, specifically the cross country or radio operators.

 

Moves from non controlled area to his own property and then takes off for local flights only.

 

I am not current but I wonder if you were not trained near a controlled area would an instructor bother to load a newbie with looking for controlled areas?

 

I also would rather an instructive response rather than a disciplinary one. This type of stuff always worried me more than physically flying the plane. But then I trained at Lilydale when I did GA and Sunbury when I did RAA.

 

Also I recon the RAA is the place to go so this can be properly mediated. When the control rings RAA it would be good if they were told that concerned RAA pilots had already called it in.

 

 

[shags_j]

RAA should definitely step in in these cases. Training syllabus should cover all this information regardless of where you train. It's not hard to learn controlled airspace locations and procedures. There really is no excuse for this kind of behaviour.

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

How could you possibly take off from your private strip, and not know what sort of air sapce you are in?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Chird, yea i smell what ya cooking mate. But Surely Knowing the basics of map reading, what the thick red lines stand for would HAVE to be taught, even to a bushy who never gets near the stuff..

 

I rang Mick poole and informed him that an RAA acft had breached CTA , i couldn't remeber any id's, but at least they are informed..

 

cheers

 

 

[Chird65]

Motz,

 

Yep I think ya did the right thing. Bringing it up here without actually pointing the finger also helps stimulate the discussion so low time / non current pilots can keep it in mind. Keep up the good work, I can tell you are passionate.

 

 

[Chird65]

MAD Dave,

 

Thats the question to ask, but if you did not get trained where would you get the maps from and who would tell you how to read them. There is pilotage and there is airmanship. One is easy, the other takes the right attitude which comes from personal outlook, training and recency.

 

 

[Guest Mad Dave]

Chird,

 

Agreed that airmanship is something that requires constant attention, and work to keep "professional". I also agree with Merv though, that surely the very basics must be taught, even to be aware that there are such things as different classes of air space? The guy in question in this case knew some sort of radio proceedures, knew he was on base on his strip, so surely he must have been aware of the extistence of CTA.

 

and Merv,

 

I also agree you have done the best thing in the situation.

 

Cheers,

 

Dave

 

 

[Guest Brett Campany]

Something that was said a while ago, not sure if it was here or somewhere else but it doesn't hurt to call the local tower and give them any information that will give them a heads up of your own operations.

 

Nothing like a bit of communication to ease any burden.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

One bloke up here a few years ago bought land, and built a strip about 2nm inside Class C, probabily without permission. Soon as they noticed it, they closed him down.

 

Two other strips, both not more than 1/2 NM outside the Class C boundry are fine. They are aware the strips are there, and they have been fully cooperative with the owners, even to the point of OK-ing field frequencies, and entry/departure routes etc. generally if you talk to them, they will accomodate. We do have a right to be there.

 

The bloke near Nowra appears to have gone about things the wrong way, and I expect he'll have some bad news coming..It will be interesting to see the outcome..................

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea, the nowra cta becomes a ctaf® on weekends, so looks like she's a weekender, unless old mate gets a transponder happnin.

 

The last thing i want is for one of our flock to get keel hauled, we do all need to stick together.

 

If anyone knows this guy, get him to drop into jaspers, i'd be happy to help out in gettin him up to sctratch (hope that doesn't sound pretencious) on the radio. We should all be looking at this soon, i heard from good authority the CTA endo is only weeks away..(VERY good authority)

 

cheers

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Just reading a couple of the comments here (not yours Merv) made me a little concerned.

 

We should all remember that, no matter how helpful the controllers are at providing access, we are not allowed into CTA or Restricted areas. CAO 95.55 refers.

 

The key issue is that without a PPL or the yet to be implemented CTA endorsement we are not allowed in those areas, even if we appear to have clearance to do so. It is the pilot's responsibility to determine whether they are equipped and qualified to enter CTA according to the rules. The controller responds to a request - he/she does not then interrogate you to determine whether you are qualified to be there or not. That's your responsibility.

 

Having a clearance won't stop problems if you're not supposed to be there in the first place.

 

Regards

 

Mike

 

95.555.2 An aeroplane may be flown inside Class A, B, C and D airspace only if all of

the following conditions are complied with:

 

(a) the aeroplane is certificated to the design standards specified in section

 

101.55 or meets the criteria specified in paragraph 21.024 (1) (a) or

 

21.026 (1) (a), or regulation 21.186, of CASR 1998;

 

(b) the aeroplane is fitted with an engine of a kind to which paragraph 6.1 of

 

section 101.55 of the Civil Aviation Orders applies, or that CASA has

 

approved as being suitable for use in an aircraft to which this section

 

applies, and is not subject to any conditions that would prevent the flight;

 

© the aeroplane is fitted with a radio capable of two-way communication

 

with Air Traffic Control;

 

(d) the aeroplane is flown by the holder of a valid pilot licence (not being a

 

student pilot licence):

 

(i) issued under Part 5 of the Regulations; and

 

(ii) that allows the holder to fly inside the controlled airspace;

 

(e) the pilot has satisfactorily completed an aeroplane flight review in

 

accordance with regulation 5.81, 5.108 or 5.169 of the Regulations;

 

(f) if the controlled airspace in which the aeroplane is operating requires a

 

transponder to be fitted — the aeroplane is fitted with a transponder

 

suitable for use in the airspace.

 

Note Operations in Class A airspace in V.F.R are only possible in accordance with a

 

permission issued by CASA under CAR 99AA.

 

95.55 5.1(d) the aeroplane must only be flown in:

(i) Class G airspace; or

 

(ii) Class E airspace in V.M.C.;

 

Note Class G and E airspace are as defined in the Air Services Regulations.

 

(e) the aeroplane must not be flown inside an area that has been designated in

 

the AIP as a prohibited or restricted area at such times as any such

 

prohibited or restricted area is active;

[Ultralights]

We should all be looking at this soon, i heard from good authority the CTA endo is only weeks away..(VERY good authority)cheers

I have heard this same thing, probably from the same person, just i have heard it a few times now...for more than a few weeks.. :)

 

dont forget a CTA endo will require a Medical.

 

 

[shags_j]

yes but will be good for those of us who actually have a class 1, 2 and 3 medical and an asic card (yes pick the one who paid for the unnecessary stuff!!!)

 

It actually opens up a whole world of opportunity for me. Being able to land at archerfield will be fantastic.

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Being able to land at archerfield will be fantastic.

And at more than $28 it will be expensive too !