Jabiru Fire at Bundaberg

[turboplanner]

There was a story ( Probably not true, but presented to me as true) about a road accident victim lying on the rails at a level crossing, with all the bystanders afraid to move the victim because of fear of litigation. In the story, a passing train settled the matter.

 

On the one hand the people at the scene of an accident are often shocked, and there is usually someone with extreme ideas, but once the train came into sight I couldn't see even the extremeists being silly enough to let someone be killed.

 

 

 

But here's something that actually happened to me: It was noon on a very hot day and just short of the gliding club there was a motorbike accident. The young bloke was nursing what looked like a broken arm and his girlfriend had abrasions.  Somebody had gone to the nearest house to call an ambulance.

 

Then the ambulance caller finally came back to say nobody was home there, I said bugger it, hop in the car and I'll drive you up to the hospital.

 

At the hospital, the girlfriend asked me to collect her purse from the motorbike. When I returned to do this, the other bystanders told me that I was going to lose everything for sure when I got sued.

 

All that actually happened is that the bike guy and his girlfriend were very grateful.

 

Medical staff will give you a right rev up for taking someone to hospital rather than calling an ambulance, You assessed a broken arm and abrasions, but their argument is that you might have missed something else. In this case (a) that's very doubtful and (b) there was no ambulance.

 

If governments spent some money advertising about their Civil Liberties Acts instead of electioneering, we would all be clear that in South Australia we should read the Civil Liability Act 1936, Section 74, and we would know how far we could go.   (The link to all the State Acts is in post #49)

 

South Australia was the scene of another tricky little piece of law, with the precedent for you being liable for advice you give established in a country town where a temperature ligtht came on in a car as a woman was entering a town. She stopped at the first service station where the mechanic found that the fan belt had broken. After searching he told her he didn't have one which was suitable but there was a service station on the other side of town which would.  On the trip across town the engine failed. The judgment went against the first person because in providing advice he had failed to warn her that IF she drove it was likely to damage the engine.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

On the one hand the people at the scene of an accident are often shocked, and there is usually someone with extreme ideas, but once the train came into sight I couldn't see even the extremeists being silly enough to let someone be killed.

 

Medical staff will give you a right rev up for taking someone to hospital rather than calling an ambulance, You assessed a broken arm and abrasions, but their argument is that you might have missed something else. In this case (a) that's very doubtful and (b) there was no ambulance.

 

If governments spent some money advertising about their Civil Liberties Acts instead of electioneering, we would all be clear that in South Australia we should read the Civil Liability Act 1936, Section 74, and we would know how far we could go.   (The link to all the State Acts is in post #49)

 

South Australia was the scene of another tricky little piece of law, with the precedent for you being liable for advice you give established in a country town where a temperature ligtht came on in a car as a woman was entering a town. She stopped at the first service station where the mechanic found that the fan belt had broken. After searching he told her he didn't have one which was suitable but there was a service station on the other side of town which would.  On the trip across town the engine failed. The judgment went against the first person because in providing advice he had failed to warn her that IF she drove it was likely to damage the engine.

 

What sort of person would sue for not receiving advice? By that logic if the driver had an accident by driving on the wrong side of the road, the person who said you can get that part on the other side of town would be liable for NOT telling the driver to stay left on the road?

 

 

[turboplanner]

What sort of person would sue for not receiving advice? By that logic if the driver had an accident by driving on the wrong side of the road, the person who said you can get that part on the other side of town would be liable for NOT telling the driver to stay left on the road?

 

Well no, not even in my simplistic story, but if you are interested you may be able to find the case online.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

My reply might have bin a bit fatuous.

I have better things to do than trawl online for legal cases which will require  the retention of a legal adviser just to try and find what is actually said in 50,000 words that could have been said in 20 words. We have reached a stage where US attorneys now envy Australia on litigation.

 

 

[turboplanner]

My reply might have bin a bit fatuous.

I have better things to do than trawl online for legal cases which will require  the retention of a legal adviser just to try and find what is actually said in 50,000 words that could have been said in 20 words. We have reached a stage where US attorneys now envy Australia on litigation.

 

Why ask the question then?

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

I reckon that woman with the fan belt and the judge involved were awful.

 

How was  the mechanic guy at the first service station to know just how close that car was to failing? How was he going to get paid for his time if he was now responsible for this woman? 

 

Not all judges are smart people I know, and there are real idiots as well as mentally incompetent types in their ranks. Bring on Artificial Intelligence judges says me.

 

Just suppose there is a judge who is slowly going insane. What mechanisms are there to detect this before damage is done?  

 

 

[facthunter]

They only have to get out of the wrong side of the bed, like anyone else. Their personal feelings towards an attorney or an  appellant should not be part of any attitude or decision but often are . you can see it happening if you spend time in Courts .  A court is a bit of a lottery where only Lawyers win, They always get paid. Nev

 

 

[johnm]

I reckon that woman with the fan belt and the judge involved were awful.

 

with all that money being dished out - i hope judge sent lady to a basic mechanics course  

 

 

[turboplanner]

I reckon that woman with the fan belt and the judge involved were awful.

 

How was  the mechanic guy at the first service station to know just how close that car was to failing? How was he going to get paid for his time if he was now responsible for this woman? 

 

Not all judges are smart people I know, and there are real idiots as well as mentally incompetent types in their ranks. Bring on Artificial Intelligence judges says me.

 

Just suppose there is a judge who is slowly going insane. What mechanisms are there to detect this before damage is done?  

 

Like Student Pilot, I'm not going to spend time finding the case details, and we're not lawyers so here's a hypothetical to think about:

 

The lady come in to the service station with the red light on and stem coming out of the overflow pipe.

 

She says "there's something wrong with the car, a red light came on.

 

The mechanic is full qualified, a member of VACC or whatever body says they know what they are doing, and has repaired cars for 40 years.

 

He asks her some questions, and she tells him she know nothing about cars, just that the red light came on.

 

(So she's established as having no ability to make a judgement on when to park the car to save the engine.)

 

He finds the problem is a broken fan belt and by the way the steam was flowing knows, or ought to have known that the best action was to shut the engine down until a new fan belt can be found.

 

However for whatever reason he tells her to drive to the other side of town to get one, without warning her that she could danage the engine.

 

So she, as the driver who has shown that she has no idea that driving a car with no fan belt could be a problem asks for the bill.

 

He who has established himself beyond doubt as being a professional mechanic who ought to know ("a carpenter knows how to use a hammer") not to drive a car with no fan belt tells her to do what he knows to be wrong.

 

The lady happens to be your wife.

 

You happen to be the mechanic.

 

What would you do?

 

 

[Litespeed]

I think your been a bit rough on the women and Judge.

 

It is obvious the mechanic gave the women very bad advice and should have known the likely outcome of his advice.

 

He only had to say, it can be damaged if you drive without cooling. Simply.

 

Legally the same if the car had one wheel but but, she asked for help, mechanic looks at wheel missing all but one nut and only says, no nuts here go across town. Wheel falls off on trip, accident etc.

 

Would he be liable then?

 

Mechanics are a legally regulated trade and considered experts by law and the public. They have some responsibility even if it only  not to provide negligent advice.

 

The women did everything a reasonable person would expect, the mechanic did not. Getting paid or not is irrelevant.

 

He is not a mate helping but a professional. 

 

It may be a case of a dodgy mechanic finally getting some payback.

 

Been in bussiness is not a licence to do anything without care.

 

 

[Student Pilot]

Because of this litigation madness the cost of living has skyrocketed with everything from just household or property third party to business indemnity insurance costing prohibitive amounts, are the only people who benefit lawyers and legal representitives?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Because of this litigation madness the cost of living has skyrocketed with everything from just household or property third party to business indemnity insurance costing prohibitive amounts, are the only people who benefit lawyers and legal representitives?

 

I can see your point if people are selling raffle tickets with 12,000 page disclaimers attached.

 

I think that apart from about six cases mentioned on this forum, the big time litigators seem to be graziers suing power companies after big fires.

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

My wife was once told at a service station that her radiator fan was faulty since it was not moving. This service station was on the north side of Gawler, while the repair place we knew of was on the south side.

 

So she drove across town to be told that the fan was electrical and it  only operated when it needed to. This was before mobile phones or I hope she would have rung me.

 

Anyway, should he have told her to walk  since the car could possibly be overheated and thus damaged from driving? The situation was very similar to that one in the court-case story, at least in the minds of the participants.

 

Should people who have no idea or interest in how their cars work  be licensed? What about planes?

 

 

[Bruce Tuncks]

Nev's intuition was supported by a research project where they convinced some judges to be instrumented while they worked.

 

The result of the research was to find that the winner is subconsciously decided within seconds of the judge clapping eyes on both parties. Of course this is strongly denied by everybody, particularly judges.

 

An artificial intelligence judge would not suffer this problem, and it might be faster and cheaper. Apparently computer-aided lawyering is well advanced already, so the idea is not as far fetched as it seems.

 

 

[turboplanner]

My wife was once told at a service station that her radiator fan was faulty since it was not moving. This service station was on the north side of Gawler, while the repair place we knew of was on the south side.

 

So she drove across town to be told that the fan was electrical and it  only operated when it needed to. This was before mobile phones or I hope she would have rung me.

 

Anyway, should he have told her to walk  since the car could possibly be overheated and thus damaged from driving? The situation was very similar to that one in the court-case story, at least in the minds of the participants.

 

Should people who have no idea or interest in how their cars work  be licensed? What about planes?

 

Lawyers go through years at University followed by years of post graduate study and experience in order to answer your Dorothy Dix questions.

 

Not surprisingly we, the public aren't allowed to go off half cocked speculating on what the answers might be.

 

 

[Jim McDowall]

What mechanisms are there to detect this before damage is done?  

 

Appoint them to a quango or perhaps a Governorship or get them a job in th UN

 

 

[pmccarthy]

True story - I was in Moscow with a colleague and we both got phone calls. His wife’s red light came on, she kept driving and cooked the engine in the MGB. My sons red light came on, he stopped. When I got home we changed the water pump for a wrecking yard item, say $50. My friend wasn’t so lucky. Quite a coincidence to get those two calls in one day. No lawyers were involved.