Brisbane center....................

[Guest Maj Millard]

Has anyone out there noticed any reluctance of center controllers to talk to RAA registered aircraft lately ?????. I'm wondering if it may be a response to us not wanting to give them our user rego numbers so they can bill us. User pays and all that rubbish etc. I know they don't have to come back to us if they're real busy.

 

I have called them in the past with no problems, and always monitor the appropriate center freq when over remote areas, as I was the other day.

 

I had been listening for about an hour, she was not busy with lots of traffic, and I called using my RAA rego, to request a current QNH for the area I was in. My manners on the radio are always..well...noice !

 

Initial call:...."Brisbane center, good morning, Lightwing 3370, requesting a current QNH for the Charters Towers area please "

 

Initially no reply at all, for five minutes. (I gave her time for a fresh coffee) Now, I have a great radio, it was working fine, and usually if I can hear them, they can hear me.

 

Thinks I:....I'll call, and not use my rego, which I did. Same call as before, less the rego.

 

She comes back with:.."Aircraft calling Bris center, your transmission is unreadable" clear as a bell.

 

I reply with: "click,click"

 

I check radio settings and they are where they always are. I'm at four grand something, so no problem there.

 

Now I may well be barking up a dead tree here, or it could be specific controller related, and an isolated case ?, all I wanted was a QNH which is a safety matter............anyone else had any problems, or noticed any reluctance. If I'd had a mayday thats the freq I would have broadcast on, and I was on the correct freq, which is a bit of a worry ?????....you'r imput please.....................

 

 

[motzartmerv]

No, ive found them quite good.. usually quite helpfull..

 

Did you ask for a radio check??...

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Yes I think I did request a radio check a bit before my request call, but I can't remember if they came back or not. Yes I have always found them good also in the past. Like I say maybe just an isolated case.......................

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea, ya are likely to get the 'odd one' in amongst them... Find it difficult to believe they would purpsofully ignore you....Being rude and arrogant yes, but ignorin ya... thats a different story...:thumb_up:

 

 

[motzartmerv]

All center radio transmissions are recorded, and if something went wrong, they'd pull the tapes and the controller would be looking through bars for a few years...

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Short of you actually having a radio problem, I can tell you exactly why you were not answered...... because you are not supposed to call Centre and ask for the QNH !

 

This went out around 5-6 years ago.

 

Back then it was practice for everyone to call up centre or radar on almost every departure and ask for the QNH. There was simply no reason to if you just set your altimiter from takeoff!

 

That being said though, you can request the QNH on flights of 100 miles or greater, however this should be done on the flight watch frequency.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

what flightwatch freq??...you tried to talk to them lately??

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Ok, well take a step back....... was the flight less than 100 miles?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

nono.. you got me wrong.. I was saying that flightwatch are a no show up here at the moment.. Tried to cancel sar a few months back on the flightwatch freq, was met by a cranky voice demanding i read the current publications. And to contact syd radar for flightwatch services.. Then tried on syd radar, and was met with another cranky voice saying cancel by phone on the ground..

 

 

[Guest pedrok]

Did you say what freq you were on when you called, as there are times when the controllers are monitoring several frequencies? Noting you were calling on Centre it would more then likely be the case. Maybe, the two clicks response wasnt going to help in a busy period.

 

Out of interest YCHT is Cat D, so is a actual weather normally available anyway without consultation. For interest I looked today there is no TAF or METAR. Although I acknowledge that I think you were after the area qnh

 

 

[Matt]

Flightwatch actually doesn't exist anymore either, hasn't since last year some time, hence the "flightwatch" guy getting cranky - the old flightwatch frequencies are no longer monitored by a dedicated operator, they are temporarily monitored by the relevant area controller...suspect that will stop in the not too distant future as it's been a while since those changes were implemented.

 

The area controller MAY respond with details depending on workload etc. similar to flight following and other VFR services. There are a number of ways to obtain area QNH prior to and during your flight...preference is obviously prior to using ARFOR, local TAF etc. alternatively dial up your local ATIS or AWIS.

 

Ultimately while the Airservices folks are handy for the "VFR in Class G" folks, their primary responsibility (and source of their funding) is commercial and IFR operations in controlled airspace. Workload permitting, they MAY be able to provide you with a service.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

Current ERSA:

 

GEN-FIS-3

 

6. Cancellation of SARTIME

 

6.2 Pilot may cancel SARTIME via:

 

a. FLIGHTWATCH on a FIS VHF Outlet ... (list of them on a map on the following page)

 

ERSA makes no mention of FLIGHTWATCH not existing. I have heard about this too, but someone should tell Airservices that airservices doesn't do flightwatch anymore. Assuming they really don't.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes, CASA strikes again. We seem to be spiralling down and down, with unending changes and, a communications level of a hysterical blowfly.

 

I've been waiting three months for confirmation that the current VFG is right/wrong on VFR flight requirements, and while many people have opinions, no one seems to know.

 

The downside of all this confusion is that safety standards are dropping.

 

 

[Matt]

Airservices media release refers http://www.airservices.gov.au/media/pressreleases/pr_07.pdf while not a formal "closure" as such, it has been shifted to the relevant area frequency and workload moved from a dedicated flightwatch operator onto the area controller...call it what you will but the outcome is that the service isn't what it use to be.

 

On the VFG issues, this is a CASA publication and isn't a controlled document like Airservices publications.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

What about flight following? Quite a bit of publicity of late and seems CASA wants us to use it. But unless I am having a boy's look, I can't find a mention of it in ERSA!

 

 

[skeptic36]

Flightwatch actually doesn't exist anymore either, hasn't since last year some time, .

Somebody should tell the people conducting the radio operators endorsement exam !

I completed my theory exam last month, there where three questions with at least one of the multiple choice answers being to use the Flightwatch frequencies, for each one the correct answer was to use flightwatch.

 

Example: question 41 When flying in class G or E airspace what frequency would you use to access the QNH value for a particular airstrip whilst in flight?

 

a) Use the FLIGHTWATCH frequency to aquire QNH

 

b) On the VOR & NDB frequencies as a part of AWIB

 

c) Use the appropriate Area frequency

 

d) Either b or c

 

e) Both a & b

 

I said 'a', the correct answer was 'e'

 

 

[poteroo]

Need to know....?

 

Some of the requests made of Center are nothing short of frivolous - it's no wonder they are often brusque. A few hectopascals either way isn't going to alter your transit or approach safety. And you should be able to do a radio check on 126.7 or any other CTAF frequency. Too much chatter and nonsensical waffling on all radio frequencies anyway. Less is more!

 

happy days,

 

 

[Kaz]

For info - Brisbane Centre run Pilots Nights, where GA (and RAA) pilots can come to the centre for a few hours and have Safety and ATC personnel give presentations on a range of topics. You also spend time in the Ops room and simulator to get an understanding of what the contollers do. If you live in the area talk to your flying club, get a group together and contact the Centre.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I have heard pilots request current QNH on center freqs before, and get it. Yes my flight was 110 nm, from one cattle station south of Hughenden, to another south of Charters Towers. I was mostly over remote country with little 126.7 transmissions, as I was probabily the only fool out there last Sunday afternoon. I was not going to Charters Towers, just used it as an area reference, as it was the nearest airport. My destination was 60nm south. I always zero my altimeter at point of takeoff, religiously, should a quick return be necessary. And I was landing in an area probabily several hundred feet below the departure point. An accurate QNH would have been helpfull, but I can survive without it. Foolish of me, but i thought we paid their wages (and bills) so that they could help pilots when required. This was a simple, and ligitimate request..........Funny thing is, if I ever go down in that country, and they have to spend thousands looking for me, the first thing they'll ask is "why wasn't he talking to Bris Center ?!" I do of course carry the latest GPS beacon.......................................

 

 

[Guest pedrok]

Without trying to protect airservices, as I know there are some internal issues, but I understood that as a corporation it is self-funded and govt (ergo taxpayers) only contribute to a few community services. So as VFR pilots we don't actually contribute to their costs except through the purchase of charts and publications.

 

The fact that FIS is so screwed up is because it was an easy way to save money - because most of the people it services are not paying customers. So they transfer some functions to other areas who have other priorities and as you mentioned may or may not provide advisory services to VFR - if their other activities don't prevent it.

 

There are actually some bean-counters within ASA that would love to charge for SARTIMES because they don't believe you should get anything for free.

 

ASA aren't faultless, but the reality of this is - like everything else these days - we sold of all the infrastructure to companies that are designed/have an obligation to make profit. So things that were once free or provided as a community service are no longer acceptable.

 

 

[turboplanner]

How far we have fallen. Anyone remeber the days of Full Reporting?

 

 

[shags_j]

Wouldn't it be easier to listen to the appropriate atis in flight for qnh? Admittedly still pretty new to cross country flights but even on my short trips we find out the local atis' for areas we fly over.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

Speaking of Sartimes, Moorabbin Tower was most upset when they were asked by an arriving aircraft on Saturday to cancel his SAR for him!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Nearest ATIS was Townsville 133.5 and I couldn't get it, as I was at least 150nm from it. Brentc, when I flew GA and UL in the states you opened and closed SARTime after you took off, on the radio, and before or after you landed, no problemo. That was over 15 years ago now. Are we going backwards here or what ?....................................

 

 

[turboplanner]

Maj, it was here too.

 

I remember it as;"

 

"Sydney, this is XXX circuit area Grong Grong, cancel SARWATCH"

 

"XXX Sarwatch Terminated, Sydney" and the guy would take your chip out and all would be well