Brisbane center....................

[Guest ozzie]

Do they still give you the area QNH on the weather forcast?

 

 

[Matt]

Absolutely, current forecast for AREA30 (Vic)

 

AREA 30 : AREA FORECAST and TAFs

 

 

 

AREA30 (30)

 

ARFOR AMEND AREA FORECAST 250500 TO 251700 AREA 30/32.

 

 

 

AQNH AREA QNH 04/07

 

AREA 30/32: 1017

 

It's also in TAF for each aerodrome.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

yes but is it current at the time you need it ?....................

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just coupling the above comments with a thread some time ago where depending on the poster an acceptable circuit height ranged from 50 feet to about 2000 feet, it would appear that a dangerous situation now exists - pilots are responsible for their own separationin the circuit, but without the most effective tool other than crayfish eyes and anything from an RPT to a powered chute could be coming at them from any direction.

 

Would it be better, as a group, to get CASA/Airservices to clarify the current regulations on circuit heights and QNH availability, so we were all - GA and RAA and peripherals working off the same base.

 

That may show up some of the black holes which clearly seem to exist in getting critical safety information en route.

 

 

[Matt]

yes but is it current at the time you need it ?....................

You should have a current ARFOR and TAF prior to any flight, these forecasts are (generally) valid for a 24 hour period. Based on that, yes it will be current at the time you need it...assuming you have in fact in receipt of a current forecast...which is of course required prior to each flight.

 

PS> This is all fundamental BAK and Navigation knowledge, I would expect anyone who has passed their BAK exam and has a Navigation endorsement would be aware of these requirements.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Sounds like a great idea. Normally if I am flying in my local area I have no problems with controllers or obtaining a QNH. The othe day it would have been nice to get it as I new there was descending traffic above me down to 5000', and I was landing in an area quite different in elev to the one I left 110nm back. Since I was cruising at around 4500' at times, I was more interested in having an accurate QNH to stay away from the 5000' and above level, I did eventually drop down to 3500' due conditions anyway....................................................

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

In the absence of an atis qnh and if the airport was uncontrolled then forcast qnh would be used especially by rpt. the only hassel that would occur would be if a local aircraft was doing circuts and had dialed up airport elevation to get the qnh. but then if hearing an rpt enter then it would be smarts to give him your operating qnh.

 

ozzie

 

 

[Matt]

Just coupling the above comments with a thread some time ago where depending on the poster an acceptable circuit height ranged from 50 feet to about 2000 feet, it would appear that a dangerous situation now exists - pilots are responsible for their own separationin the circuit, but without the most effective tool other than crayfish eyes and anything from an RPT to a powered chute could be coming at them from any direction.Would it be better, as a group, to get CASA/Airservices to clarify the current regulations on circuit heights and QNH availability, so we were all - GA and RAA and peripherals working off the same base.

 

That may show up some of the black holes which clearly seem to exist in getting critical safety information en route.

Pretty simple, all of this information is available in the AIP:

 

Circuit Height: http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/enr/1_1_1-116.pdf

 

An extract from the current AIP regarding Circuit Height:

 

57.3 Circuit Height

 

57.3.1 When operating at non−towered aerodromes, the following circuit

 

heights are recommended:

 

a. jets/turbo props/high performance aircraft, 1500FT AGL;

 

b. typically single engine piston, 1000FT AGL;

 

c. ultralights with a maximum speed of 55KTS and

 

helicopters, 500FT AGL.

 

NOTE: High performance aircraft are those that have a normal

 

downwind speed of greater than 120 knots.

 

57.3.2 Circuit heights for aerodromes which have specific requirements

 

are published in ERSA.

 

Weather Forecast, Availability, Validity etc: http://www.airservices.gov.au/publications/current/aip/gen/3_5_25-36.pdf

 

 

[turboplanner]

Matt, that's fine, but what do you do as atmospheric conditions change en route, or (more rapidly) in the time you are out.

 

It's a long time ago, but I think we even used to reset QNH when we returned into Moorabbin from the training area, using the ATIS and it was often different after an hour.

 

 

[Matt]

t.It's a long time ago, but I think we even used to reset QNH when we returned into Moorabbin from the training area, using the ATIS and it was often different after an hour.

Which is why obtaining the latest ATIS is required prior to requesting clearance into a control zone or entering a GAAP. Weather will change, although it's unlikely QNH will change dramatically in a short period of time or sufficient to significantly impact VFR operations in Class G airspace.

 

It is also worth noting that it is necessary to ensure your altimeter is within approved calibration tolerance to ensure that separation standards are maintained.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Let's take Charters Towers (bearing in mind I'm rusty and have yet to bring myself back up to speed on Navs)

 

Looking at the ERSA, it seems there is no ATIS fequency in the town, but two ways of obtaining an area forecast:

 

(a) send a fax - not so easy two hours into a flight

 

(b) dectalk, where the Code for this area is 4411

 

This seems like a reasonable way to get automatic forecasts all over Australia, but in best Airservices fashion, after: "this page is intentionally blank" (I assume a lot of guys write in and say "Hey, know you've left a blank after page 756, turkeys?"), in Information for Use of Dectalk, the Code is 9442.

 

Is this the system the Major was supposed to have referred to, or what would be the correct procedure fopr approach into Charters Towers.

 

 

[Matt]

Many other options to get the area and aerodrome forecast:

 

1. Airservices NAIPS Application

 

2. Airservices Pilot Briefing website: Airservices Australia -Flight Briefing-Pilot Briefing Services

 

3. The "Weather" page on this forum http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/view.php?pg=weather

 

4. The Aviation pages on the BOM site

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Remember, I wasn't going to Charters Towers Airport, instead to a cattle property 60 nm South. I can get field elevation out of ersa for CHTowers. Failing that, being an experience ex-skydiver I am capable of accuratly estimating visually, when I am 1000' feet off the ground, give or take a 100 ft or so.

 

My original problem was not that I didn't have an accurate QNH, but that Center didn't give it to me, when I made a ligitimate request.

 

I feel that this thread may be going round in circles now, but it has been thought provoking anyway......................................................................

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes Major, I wasn't thinking of using QNH for ground clearance or landing purposes - more for altitude separation and particularly at a town circuit.

 

Matt has pretty much confirmed your gripe was justified, given that his references all apply before the flight starts, and not while you are up there two hours into the flight, in different weather conditions, with the aircraft bucking around and RPT/Ag operations in the circuit area (or in the specific case you describe).

 

It seems to me there is a safety issue.

 

 

[Kaz]

My original problem was not that I didn't have an accurate QNH, but that Center didn't give it to me, when I made a ligitimate request

Controllers can't just ignore you. I expect there was simply a radio issue and they couldn't clearly understand your request.

 

Great thread though :thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

yes you might be right Kaz. I could also have been in a radio black spot, although I could recieve them just fine...........................................................

 

 

[turboplanner]

I haven't seen so many people on a thread for a while, so come on comrades, don't be shy, let's hear your experiences, there are people here with good advice to help you.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Don't worry Turboplanner, I've got a couple of topics in mind when I get time, we'll get em' going again............................................................................

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Brisbane Centre

 

C0730/09 REVIEW C0016/09

 

ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY

 

ALERTING SERVICES NORMALLY PROVIDED BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE VHF

 

FREQUENCIES NOT AVBL

 

DUE TO STAFF AVAILABILITY.

 

SERVICES AFFECTED:

 

ON-REQUEST FLIGHT INFORMATION (FIS), SARTIME AND EMERGENCY ALERTING

 

SERVICES PROVIDED AS A GHOSTING FUNCTION BY FLIGHTWATCH ON DISCRETE

 

VHF FREQUENCIES.

 

118.95 MANINGRIDA

 

119.4 BUNDABERG AND TOWNSVILLE

 

120.1 GOVE

 

120.7 PERTH

 

121.1 SYDNEY

 

121.3 WESTERN VICTORIA

 

121.6 PORT MACQUARIE, WILLIAMTOWN AND SCONE AREAS

 

122.1 ARMIDALE, GLEN INNES AND COFFS HARBOUR AREAS

 

124.0 WALGETT, MOREE, COOLAH AND CAIRNS AREA

 

124.1 MOUNT ISA AREA

 

124.95 CENTRAL VICTORIA

 

128.15 NORTHERN NSW AREA

 

128.2 WHITSUNDAY ISLAND AREA

 

128.55 MILDURA

 

128.75 MAROOCHYDORE/BRISBANE AREAS

 

133.45 ROCKHAMPTON/GLADSTONE AREAS

 

134.85 MUDGEE AREA

 

135.05 SOUTHERN NSW

 

135.6 EASTERN VICTORIA

 

Does this clarify the problem?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

No, don't see your point. My ERSA for Townsville indicates 120.55 as the Brisbane center freq., as does the two page area/freq indicator brochure put out a couple of years ago for Class G airspace, which I was also referencing as I do when I go cross country. I was inside the Townsville freq area although still around 150nm from Townsville and I was on 120.55. The fact that I sat there for at least half an hour listening to brisbane center talk to other traffic, tells me that the freq was manned and working.

 

 

[Guest basscheffers]

For what it's worth, I was going to be a bit close to my SARTIME today so asked ADL approach to amend (while in class G) which they did. I ended up rolling off the runway about 30 seconds before my original SARTIME. ;-)