don't do buses, don't do trains, don't do planes

[Tracktop]

Hi all

 

My name is Ray

 

My motto used to be - "don't do buses, don't do trains, don't do planes."

 

That changed not too many years ago to just "don't do buses, don't do trains"

 

 

And it is now , "don't do buses, don't do trains, don't do dirty nappies." - yep I'm a grandpa.

 

While surfing ( that would the net - not the sea ) mid last year I suggested to my wife that a microlight might be able to land in our paddock, and could be a good new toy to play with - "why look at the pics love, some of them even look like real planes."

 

"Yes dear they look nice, no you can't - so forget it, shhh I'm watching (TV)."

 

Oh well got over it, forgot it and moved on.

 

BUT come Christmas what do I get from the wife - na not a plane - a gift voucher for an introductory flight in a microlight.

 

Had an intro flight in an airborne XT912 taking off and landing from the home paddock. On landing the grin was just sooo big.

 

Started lessons close to home at Maitland NSW very soon after and am now getting close to solo (so my instructor Chris tells me).

 

I am also the proud owner of a shiny new red airborne XT912 tundra :big_grin:

 

Currently investigating hanger designs and prices so one day it can come home to roost.

 

That's a brief intro into of my entry into self flying.

 

Love the site and it is good to see so much activity. Thanks for the opportunity to join.

 

My intro was also to show that I have only had an interest in recreational flying for max 10 months and in reality only 4 months. Before that not even a desire or consideration.

 

More Just Climbing Out than Just Landed - and definitely still bouncy.

 

So my knowledge and experience is very limited so without getting political. I am a bit bewildered as - .

 

While the site seems to be specifically for RAA members but not associated officially with RAA (and for non weight shift I believe that is the only option other than PPL or above) it claims to serve the interests of and accepts all types of recreational flyers. It doesn't seem to recognise HGFA training ( eg your pilot qualification survey )

 

I am currently training under HGFA with my HGFA registered trike not because of any preference or reason, thats just how things fell into place, and in fact on starting my training I was unaware there were even a choice of licence issuer.

 

It would be a shame if such a great site aimed at all recreational flyers would not capture, fully include and make welcome the complete set - surely we are all here on a site like this for the fun and sport and info exchange - not the politics if that is the cause.

 

Reading through the posts I do detect a number of HGFA pilots posting here.

 

If I have got it wrong I apoligise in advance.

 

May all your flights be smooth, safe and enjoyable.

 

Ray

 

 

[skeptic36]

It would be a shame if such a great site aimed at all recreational flyers would not capture, fully include and make welcome the complete set - surely we are all here on a site like this for the fun and sport and info exchange -

Hi and Ray,

 

I have been a member here for some time and the only people I have seen made unwelcome are those trying to use the forums to advertise and individuals who like to engage in flying that is less than responsible.

 

I would say your perception is due to the number of RA-Aus members compared to H.G.F.A and the forum traffic is proportional. There are a lot of people here who are not members of either, some don't even live in this country.

 

So rest assured you are

 

Regards Bill

 

H.G.F.A Pilot

 

 

[Admin]

Hi Ray and welcome to the site.

 

Your observations are correct in that the site is predominately RAAus orientated but that is simply due to the approx 83% of registrations come from RAAus members. However, the site is ultimately targeted to ALL forms of recreational flying and I would so much welcome any suggestions from you on how to cater to the entire recreational flying public. If you would like a separate HGFA forum then consider it done, just let me know.

 

This goes for any aircraft type. We did have separate forums for Airborne trikes and "Other" trikes but it was suggested to combine them. If a separate forum is needed for flying fords (Fords go faster ) then PLEASE PLEASE let me know. The only requisite is that they get used but we are always willing to give them a try.

 

I am not sure if you have all noticed the Club forums. If your club would like a forum then just let me know - you can also create a page in the Clubs & Schools section for your club which gets randomly displayed on the home page and we can link a forum to it as well - hay, we can even create a specific calendar for your club and you can have your events in it plus also have an RSVP system for your event - it's all here already so please just let me know.

 

Ray, again welcome to the site and we all know you will fit in at home here and that goes for ALL HGFA members - a warm welcome to you all.

 

Thanks for your comments, it is appreciated!

 

 

[Tracktop]

Hi

 

Thanks for the warm welcome and reassurance.

 

I am sure I will enjoy my association and look forward to meeting under ( or beside) a wing one day.

 

My comments were intended to be purely constructive and I guess reflected how I saw a casual (HGFA) net surfer may interpret this site.

 

As with promoting anything - first look is critical, and such a great active site should be promoted.

 

I may in fact have inadvertantly inflamed the problem for non members ( casual surfer) as they cannot see your friendly and encouraging reply's without registering.

 

At present I am still finding my way around so I am not sure the best way to improve the perception. If I work one out I'll let you know.

 

Thanks

 

Ray

 

 

[Yenn]

G'day Ray and welcome to the forums. Having been e member here for some time I can remember some posts by HGFA type flyers, but not many. I am sure all are welcome and input from you about hang gliders would be well received.

 

Most of us probably have had very little to do with hang gliders or even gliders, but we are interested.

 

I have had one flight in a hang glider and it was great fun, they are so manouverable and can fly nice and slow. Gliders are of course a lot like normal powered planes without an engine. The big snag is that gliding is very much a club sport and you may spend all day helping others launch and only get 10 minutes yourself.

 

 

[Tracktop]

Hi Yenn and others

 

Thanks for the welcome

 

My ride while having a hang glider type wing is a 2 seater plane powered by a Rotax 80 hp engine, cruises at about 70 knots. It carries 70lt of fuel giving a range of about 700km, MTOW of 450kg, climb rate of 825ft/min

 

From my limited understanding (please correct me if I am wrong) "Trikes" are planes rather than gliders.They are a 2 axis rather than 3 axis configuration ie we have no rudder, they are controlled by shifting weight ( pod, people, engine and fuel) which causes the wing shape and attitude to change thus effecting control over direction.

 

A couple of big differences ( from my novice understanding) between trikes and 3 axis planes is that in a trike power effects climb rate not speed. Basically speed in a trike is controlled by wing shape which can be alterable in flight, and attitude.

 

In a trike when you push the control bar away from you you go UP not DOWN

 

They seem to be refered to as the motorbikes of the sky, probably due to the open cockpit design that is required to use the control bar. My model has a pod that you sit in as well as a high windscreen, comfy seating though rather cosy for the passenger ( pillion style).

 

From a "don't do planes" past, the ride in a trike seems smoother through the bumps than my limited experience in cessna type aircraft. This is probably due to the softer wing flexing more under load.

 

I assume being part hang glider (wing format and control) and part plane they have

 

ended up being controlled by 2 bodies the RAA and the HGFA. That is to say

 

you can elect to register the aircraft and get pilot certification off either body.

 

My understanding is that you can only fly planes registered with the body your

 

license is held with even though both bodies operate under the same rules and seem to have very similar requirements.

 

Hope my novice comments are of interest.

 

Ray

 

 

[Tracktop]

Hi Ray and welcome to the site.This goes for any aircraft type. We did have separate forums for Airborne trikes and "Other" trikes but it was suggested to combine them. If a separate forum is needed for flying fords (Fords go faster ) then PLEASE PLEASE let me know. The only requisite is that they get used but we are always willing to give them a try.

Hi Ian

 

Thanks

 

Forum categories seem fine - all trikes under one is good.:thumb_up:

 

Ray

 

 

[skeptic36]

the ride in a trike seems smoother through the bumps than my limited experience in cessna type aircraft. This is probably due to the softer wing flexing more under load.

Hi Ray,

 

Although I have little experience with three axis, I think you will find due to the reduced wing loading in a trike (larger wing area per kg of aircraft weight) in comparison to most three axis aircraft, the trike is actually a rougher ride in bumpy conditions compared to the Cessna types. This is the reason a lot of trike pilots prefer to fly early mornings and late evenings.

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[Simonflyer]

I say flying is flying, no matter what it is..

 

enjoy!

 

 

[farri]

A couple of big differences ( from my novice understanding) between trikes and 3 axis planes is that in a trike power effects climb rate not speed. Basically speed in a trike is controlled by wing shape which can be alterable in flight, and attitude.

In a trike when you push the control bar away from you you go UP not DOWN

 

Ray

G`Day Ray and to the forum,

 

Please excuse my ignorance as I don`t fly Trikes but when the bar is pushed foward the angle of attack is increased, this increases the drag and drag slows an aircraft down,power (thrust) is required to overcome the drag being created,thereby allowing the AC to climb.

 

Changing the shape of the wing and or appling power are a seperate exercises and therefore doesn`t the bar controll the speed of the Trike, if no power or or wing profile is changed?.

 

The reason I ask is because it is extremely important to completely understand what controls the speed of the aircraft as many accidents occur due to low speed.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[skeptic36]

G`Day Ray and to the forum,Please excuse my ignorance as I don`t fly Trikes but when the bar is pushed foward the angle of attack is increased, this increases the drag and drag slows an aircraft down,power (thrust) is required to overcome the drag being created,thereby allowing the AC to climb.

 

Changing the shape of the wing and or appling power are a seperate exercises and therefore doesn`t the bar controll the speed of the Trike, if no power or or wing profile is changed?.

 

The reason I ask is because it is extremely important to completely understand what controls the speed of the aircraft as many accidents occur due to low speed.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

Hi Frank,

Your basic understanding is correct however it is all relative, if you pull the bar in you will descend and increase speed if you add power you will maintain altitude and increase speed. Push the bar out you will gain altitude and wash off speed, add power and you can gain altitude and maintain speed. Flying in trim ((no control inputs on the bar) the safest and most comfortable flying) if you add power you climb, reduce power your descending.

 

Push the bar out too far without adding power and you will surely get some stall recovery practice

 

I'm sure Ray's instructor will make sure he is well versed in the results of all the control inputs before he goes solo :thumb_up:

 

I hope that I've made that understandable i_dunno

 

Regards Bill

 

 

[Tracktop]

Thanks Bill

 

My comment was a very brief and coarse explanation of my understanding between 2/3 axis machines. Note that my 3 axis understanding is the lessor.

 

Yes and rightly so, my instructor(s) are very particular that I fully understand.

 

Ray

 

 

[bushpilot]

Welcome Ray,

 

I came into this Forum with an HGFA backgound - hang gliders and nano trikes. Then when I bought my Airborne Redback I decided I'd get more value out of the RA-Aus. This in turn rekindled my interest in 3 axis, so in time I moved on to a Jabiru.

 

By my reckoning whilst the HGFA support trikes, their heart is still really in hang gliding. They are (or were) also more expensive to be a member of than RA-Aus, but I dont know why...

 

As others have said, irrespective of who issues your licence, you are more than welcome here...

 

BTW: Nice XT912.. The Tundra undercarriage gives you plenty of landing options!

 

Cheers

 

Chris