Javelin 95-10 Ultralight

[David Isaac]

Hi Folks,

 

I have just purchased a Javelin Ultralight in remarkable condition given its age. I am looking to find some history on the type. I was hoping someone who has been around a while would know of the type and who the designer was. I was told the designer was Lee Wakeland, does anyone know him or where I can contact him.

 

They are a rag and tube machine, single surface wing strut braced, tail wheel config. They look a bit like a Thruster, single seat obviously. This one was 10-1285 when first registed in July 1995. Previous owners were a Mr P Robertson, then Mr SG Curtis does anyone know them that could put me in contact with them.

 

I am actually looking for manufacturers data on the machine. Can anyone help me?

 

Regards,

 

David Isaac

 

 

[Guest Franksy1]

Javelin

 

Gday David

 

Phil Robertson can be found at the Cobden Aero club. his email is [email protected] ,,, I think !!!

 

I had a Mustang, a very similar aircraft to the javelin. we would fly together when he had the javelin.

 

I wish I knew what happened to my old Mustang

 

Peter Franks

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hi Peter,

 

Thanks for that info. I used to fly a Mustang as well back in 1985, they were designed by Frank Bailey, Frank died about 5 years ago. I was actually looking for a Mustang when I cam across the Javelin. Looking at the javelin, it is just a more refined Mustang with tubes for strut bracing instead of King poles and wires. There is a javelin and a Mustang in the Holbrook ultralight Museum, is it p[ossible it was yours? I will contact Phil.

 

regards,

 

David

 

 

[Guest Franksy1]

Yep they were the good old days.

 

I have no idea where my old Mustang is but I would like to find out just what happened to it. I must find out what the one in the Holbrook ultralight Museum looks like.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Peter,

 

What year did you have your Mustang? Did you ever meet Frank Bailey the designer? Do you remember who was building the kits and selling them? The name Lee Wakeland rings a bell with me, I have a vague recollection he was associated with Frank Bailey and if Lee was the Javelin designer it would make sense. What can you recall about these times.

 

David

 

 

[farri]

Hi Folks,I was told the designer was Lee Wakeland, does anyone know him or where I can contact him.

 

David Isaac

Hi David,

 

Sorry I can`t help with the aircraft but I know Lee Wakeland well,he was a top gun Ultralight pilot and my CFI when I started Instructing 20 years ago,havn`t seen or heard from him for many years now.

 

I would love to be able to say G`Day to him if I could contact him,if anyone knows how,please let me know also.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[Guest Franksy1]

Dave

 

Last entry in my log book for the Mustang is 13 July 1997. Never met Frank Bailey, There was a bloke in Redesdale about 40K SE of Bendigo making parts and kits for the mustang when I had mine. I have a couple of pictures of my old plane. and the Holbrook Guys use one of my pictures on one of their display boards. I had a Kawasaki 440 on mine,,, and NO flight instruments. just a taco.

 

Pete

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Hi All,

 

Frank Bailey was possibly responsible for about half the rag and tube ultralights that were built back in the 'good ol days'. I worked with Steve Cohen for many years and Frank had a big influence on Steve's products. The StolAero and Condor are two of the better known as well as the first single seat Thrusters. Lee came along and had Frank design 3 ultralights the Mustang, Javlin and the Jeep. I don't think a lot of these were built. After the original crew had left Thruster Aircraft, Lee had closed his factory at Peakhurst and was working with David Belton until he folded. I'd like one of these designs for my own collection. they come up occassionally.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hi Ozzie,

 

Thanks very much for the info. Back in 1985 I met Steve Cohen and Frank Bailey and came to know Frank quite well. You have confirmed what I was trying to recall. I did a lot of flying in one of Frank's Mustangs and took a lot of video footage in those days which I showed Frank on many ocasions. I thought Lee Wakelend built the Mustang based on Frank's design and I was convinced the Javelin I have just purchased was Frank's design as well . I have read Frank's book and know his design principles to recognise many Frank Bailey features such as the rudder extending below the elevators to give good rudder response in the stall. Was the company Flight 95 Australia Pty Ltd Lee Wakeland's company? Do you happen to know when the Javelins were first built as they certainly weren't around in the days I flew the Mustang?

 

Regards,

 

David

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I don't know too much about Lee's company. He was pretty secretive and seemed to work alone.

 

All of Franks designs they all have large control surfaces that were very effective at low speeds. It is what made them so safe to fly at low level at the slow speeds that they did. I don't know what Lee did after he left Thruster. pretty confusing times. a lot was happening. I do remember he drove like a madman tho.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[David Isaac]

Ozzie,

 

By way of further comment, it sounds like you have been around similar times to me if you know Frank and Steve Cohen's history that well. I remember watching guys like Ron Wheeler (Scout) flying their machines in the late 1970s out west of Sydney somewhere. I flew ultralights quite a bit back in 1985 to 1987, then stayed mainly with GA playing occasionally with an early Maxair Drifter. Both the Mustang and the Drifter I flew ended up in New Zealand.

 

Out of curiosity, the original owner of my Javelin was Ted Gordon who also wrote the Pilot handling notes for the aircraft. Did you know him and know if he is till around?

 

Regards,

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The strip in western Sydney was probably the old St Marys strip.

 

I had an email from someone in NZ with a Mustang a few years ago. It was yellow with a rainbow panel on the wing i think. he wanted to remount the engine so it was upright and on top of the fuse tube. i did a few drawings replacing the lower front wires for tube and a couple of other changes to the top wires. he had it approved and did the mod. said it gave him much better viz around the engine. can't say i know of Ted Gordon. I have very little if any info on the Mustang Javelin or Jeep.For some reason there was not a lot of advertiising for them.

 

Ozzie

 

 

[Guest Franksy1]

Hey Dave there is a Ted Gordon in the LAA ( Light Aircraft Association ) if you email Shane Flewings [email protected] he might have an email address for Ted Gordon ,,,,, if its the same Ted

 

Pete

 

 

[pudestcon]

Mustang at Northam WA

 

G'day,

 

I was at Northam airfield on Sunday where I'm doing some training on a Thruster with Steve Vette. In the same hanger is a Mustang 10-4642 so I thought I'd take a photo and post here.

 

 

[farri]

G`Day pudestcon,

 

Thanks for the photo,it brought back memories,I did quite a few HRS in one of those way back when I first started flying.

 

When you see Steve Vette next,please tell him,"Frank from Deeral says G`Day",he did a bit of flying with me in the Drifter back when I was instructing.

 

Cheers,

 

Frank.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Will do Frank,

 

I'll be seeing Steve next weekend weather permitting.

 

Pud

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hi Pudeston,

 

Man did that photo bring back memories. The one I did a lot of flying in was based at the old army strip near Mittagong. In those days (1985 or maybe earlier) the strip had one Cessna based there with a couple of ultralights. If this strip is the one I drove past last year, it is now redeveloped into a full aerodrome with hangars.

 

The Mustang I flew ended up in NZ it was owned at the time by Gil Sweetman now living in Forster and flying out of Taree. From memory the bloody thing stalled at around 16 knots and would take off in about 25 to 30 metres with the 50 HP Robin that was on it.

 

Regards,

 

David.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Yeh David, they are certainly a marginal machine but it is good to reflect on where the ultralight movement has come from, especially for someone like me who started late in life.

 

Pud

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hi Pud,

 

You say marginal, but only in the sense that the speed envelope was tight and that you needed a lot of rudder otherwise the ailerons were useless. High lift single surface wing but with high drag meant they were slow and safe, however, gusty weather was not ideal. In any engine failure you could almost land in an average backyard if you knew what you were doing and in the worst case if you had to land in trees or rough terrain you could slow your impact speed to less than 18 knots and you still had the engine in front of you to take the impact. Falling off a trail bike is far worse. Also at 30 knots full power and a 45 degree angle of bank you could turn it on a dime between trees 50 feet above the ground and then roll level and land (a bit naughty but great fun in the bush).

 

They were also unspinable, I tried every way possible to spin the Mustang ( I am GA aerobatic qualified), it was incredibly stable....it didn't even really stall, it just entered a high sink rate. If you pulled it up to the vertical quickly with full power and then cut the power you could get a brief whip stall, but it was flying again within a 30 foot sink. If you made a real bad mistake, you would be unlikely to suffer much more than injury to your ego....that is a lot more than you can say for some of the slippery machines out there today. I knew Frank Bailey the designer personally and his priority was for the safety of novice learner pilots.

 

I used to call the Mustang an aerial trail bike.

 

David

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Just a few photos.

 

the first is the mustang from NZ. it has been modified with the engine turned upright and on top of the fuse. the lower brace wires have been replaced with tube and the forward landing wire has been moved rearward behind the engine.

 

The other two are Steve's StolAero, also Franks design, you can see how close the Mustang is related. the only real difference is the rear tube wing spar on the mustang. The Stolaero/condor had a wire for the trailing edge. that is Frank in the shots. i have also come across a brouchure unfortunatly it is small print and slightly larger than A4. i can't scan it small enough to post and be readable. Place of manufacture was Hanger 120 Bankstown Airport.

 

so seeing how we have well and truely hijacked the Javlin thread can we please see a photo or two of it.

 

best thing about aerial trailbikes is that you don't have to stop to open and close the gates

 

ozzie

 

 

[David Isaac]

Ozzie,

 

You are a history marvel. Did you know Gil Sweetman when he owned that Mustang? He took it to NZ and later sold it, I even flew it in NZ a couple of times when I visited him in a small town called Fielding near Palmerston North.

 

Interesting mods. I have attached a couple of shots of the Javelin, you can clearly see they are a beefed up Mustang with a glass pod in front. I suspect a little heavier than the Mustang with the extra tubes. That would explain a 20 knot stall as opposed to the 16 knot stall of the original Mustang.

 

David

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

The Mustang originally was powered by the robin 250cc single with a belt redrive. performance specs of the mustang with single cyl robin

 

stall 19mph 30.5kph

 

cruise 32mph 51.5kph

 

max speed 40mph 64.3kph

 

cruise range 70/80 miles 129klm 13.2lt tank

 

rate of climb 300fpm

 

take off roll 135ft

 

empty wt 240lbs 108.86kg

 

i did not know Gill. I flew a Mustang a couple of times but can't remember whose it was. i also flew the 'Jeep' that looked very similar to the Javlin can't remember if it was a podded Mustang or a Ag version of the Javlin. it was owned by Allan Tricky from Watts, he flew it over to Toogoolawah. All of Franks designs were heaps of fun to fly at low level and were very safe due to low speeds and exceptional controllability.

 

David , what area did you locate this?

 

Ozzie

 

 

[David Isaac]

It came from Evans Head, the owner had retired and had the aircraft in storage for 7 years. He originally purchased and operated it in Adelaide, purchased it from the SG Curtis, prior to that it was owned by Phil Robertson. The original owner was Ted Gordon. The rego is 10-1285.

 

David

 

 

[pudestcon]

Yeh, I didn't mean marginal in the true sense of the word - more 'as grass roots as you can get'.

 

I like the idea of 'riding' a tail bike at 1000'. In fact I quite often describe open cockpit flying to riding a motorbike at 1000' feet to a lot of non aviation people who usually like cars or bikes. They get my drift.

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Info Needed.

 

Hi David,

 

I am pleased the deal worked out for you.

 

Can you do me a favour please?

 

I need some photos of the pod on your Jav. in JPEG format and not bigger than 2 mb please. If you can email them then that would be great - no immediate hurry and you have my email contact.

 

I require a square on front shot; a square side shot; some detailed shots inside of how the pod attaches to the airframe.

 

I am reasonably sure that the Thruster T100 used a Jav pod (or a modified version of one) and will have to get one made for me to rebuild the Prototype T100.

 

Aye

 

Tony