RAAus - Time to first solo

[shags_j]

Who has enough money to spend that much time training. If it takes them that long to do solo then what about EFL's etc.

 

 

[DarkSarcasm]

Time to Solo is clearly not a competition

It may not be but sometimes it feels like it.

 

If you've been following my posts on here (or if you just look at the survey above) you can see it took me longer to solo. Overall, I don't mind. I know what my problem was (I think underconfidence was also a factor tbh, as well as being short and needing a cushion so I could land the thing properly) and I got good experience at dealing with messed up landings etc by myself (which is experience I'd prefer to get with someone there to help me if I needed it rather than alone). But it feels like I should dislike it, that I must clearly be a particularly untalented pilot or something. It seems easy to look back on it and say 'well you should've just changed that' but at the time it didn't seem so obvious (guess it doesn't help when there's a foot+ difference in height between you), isn't it enough that clearly we worked it out and I did go solo? I know some people suggest that if you take longer to solo you're clearly not destined to be a pilot (and I guess if it's 100 hours + that's probably right)...but can you sit there and really say that someone shouldn't/can't be a pilot because it takes them 40+ hours to solo? - it's their dream and their money (if they're clearly unsafe that's a different matter, but if it's just them taking longer to master one thing...). Although having said that, I half feel I should be like this now.

 

Once you get your licence, do people still ask you how long it took to solo or is it like when you get into uni and people forget all about your HSC score that ruled your life for a year...?

 

 

[Guest rocketdriver]

ItOnce you get your licence, do people still ask you how long it took to solo or is it like when you get into uni and people forget all about your HSC score that ruled your life for a year...?

Darky

 

IMHO most pilots judge other pilots by the quality of their flying, not by anything else. So if your landings (which everyone watches!) are consistent and look good, and if you are seen to be careful (but not overcautious) in your flight planning and general approach to flying, then you are likely to be judged as a “good pilot”. It comes with time and a focus on trying to get it right every time .. not accepting second best in your own eyes (but also not beating yourself to death when you don’t quite achieve your desired standard) ... then people will begin to say that you are a “natural” pilot (no such thing unless you are covered in feathers and only have three toes .. .and some of them are turkeys!:big_grin:)

 

You obviously have the desire to succeed and the determination to “get there”, so keep up the good work and don’t worry about what others think. Be the best you can be, always, and you will become one of the best there are ...... :thumb_up:

 

 

[GraemeK]

Well said Darky!

 

I'll be taking longer than Darky did to go solo, but by the time I do I'll have a fair bit of experience up. I spent a lot of extra time early on in the training area for instance - because if the weather was unsuitable for circuits, we headed off to practice advanced stalls, steep turns etc over and over. If I was focussed on cost or time to solo, I'd have headed home instead.

 

I've also experience more than my fair share of messed up landings, but I'm getting there - albeit slower than others.

 

To me, the learning never stops, and the solo is one milestone along the way.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Ive been through this process 3 times now, once in GA, 15yrs latter in a trike and then 3 yrs after that in the Jabiru.

 

A few points that were relevant to me:-

 

1) Finances have always been tight, in the GA case getting the instructor out reduced my costs. At the time that was important to me, but not so much that I hounded the instructor to hurry it up. In the trike and the J it didn't make any difference so less $ drive to make it so.

 

2) After achieving solo, the next thing focused on (after certificate) in the last 2 times was immediately getting a passenger endorsement so I could again fill the 2nd seat, this time with someone much less useful to me in the event of a crisis occuring...

 

3) In every case I actually liked the instructors and would have been happy to socialize with them outside the formal instruction regeme..so why want them out earlier than was necessary, other than the stigma that is attached to solo

 

I'd like to think that I'm mores sensible now than I was when younger (wishful thinking perhaps!!) but other than the stigma around solo would like to think If I try for a fourth time it was entirely unrushed. So what rushes it, probably if I'm honest, my own expectations, other pilots and or students asking how its going, and doing so in such a way that solo gets discussed or emphasized.

 

If I talk with those in training I don't bring up solo in the discussion, and if it comes up always try and deemphasis the importance of that bit suggesting that when it happens it will be because a lot of things have come together at the right time, and only a few of those relate to the skill of the pilot under training such as:-

 

1) weather, such as turbulence, winds, cloud etc

 

2) time of day

 

3) amount of other traffic in or around at the time

 

4) Aircraft availability

 

5) staffing coverage with the FT school

 

6) Instructors personal risk acceptance (ie 1 instructor might send a student solo at 15hrs and another might send the same student with the same lessons at 20hrs)

 

7) and of course student skills, readiness and preparation

 

Andy

 

Sorry last point...when it comes to insuring your aerial steed, QBE and others wont give a toss how many hours it took to go solo (because they dont ask that question) but they do give a toss about your total hours experience. From memory they didn't differentiate betwen PIC and PUI hours. So, given that $ drive those questions I would say that it is authoritive as to the real importance of how many hours to solo

 

 

[Guest Kevin the Penniless]

I've got 250 hours up. Now if you look at my landing I posted onto my you-tube site, you'd not believe me. I went solo after 15 hours, that's probably average.

 

YouTube - KevinThePenniless's Channel

 

 

[Relfy]

Standing apron-side a few weeks ago, watching a J230 I was about to take for a spin around the South Burnett, I got to chatting with a mum who was at the field in support of her son, all of 16 years of age taking flying lessons.

 

He was running through a few circuits with my trusty CFI and mum and I were talking about the fact that her son was in the aircraft taking a lesson immediately before I started my first lesson, when he failed to plan for the worst and ate a wonderful Brumby's pie pre lesson...which he brought up mid lesson. We joked about the junior flight instructor getting out the aircraft with a worried look on his face crying that it was his first student to reverse gear in his aircraft and how a piece may have gone into his mouth...anyway that's another story for another time. Stay with me.

 

I told her that I was extremely apprehensive about getting in after he fogged the left hand seat window with a potato pie, but then commented and congratulated her on her efforts in cleaning up the mess and leaving no trace, be it odor or residue behind, enabling me to take flight also on my quest to pilot status, free of wafts and sights of the sickly kind.

 

Anyways, I could tell that she was proud of him for getting this far and I reinforced to her how she should be proud of him, for sticking with it and doing so well given that a lot of teenage kids achievements these days relate to far sinister activities. She was chuffed and then we both looked over, to see said CFI hop out of said J230, then start walking over to where we were standing, while J230 backtracked 16 YKRY for circuit...CFIless

 

"What's he doing?", she said.

 

I said, "Well, it looks like he's going solo. This is awesome, your son is going to fly on his own!"

 

"Oh." she said.

 

I remember looking at the expression on her face and that's when the reality and human component of this whole thing we love doing, came home. She was excited, nervous, apprehensive and downright terrified all at once. It was what I envisaged we all would have looked like the moment we rotated on our first solo and slipped the bounds of earth alone.

 

The point of the story, and yes there is one...is that the CFI came over and mum asked the question, "How do you know they are ready?"

 

The reply came straight away, "I ask myself if they are ready to take one of my family members for a fly."

 

After a nice landing with a lofty flair courtesy of my CFI's 75kg (his estimate, not mine) reduction in weight aboard, a J230 gave taxxied, called clear all runways and gave birth to a smiling young pilot. CFI, mum and I looked at each other and grinned at what we just witnessed. Here was a 16 y/o male in command of a +$100,000 machine putting a lot of theory and practical skill into reality.

 

It doesn't get any better than that!

 

 

[pudestcon]

Standing apron-side a few weeks ago, watching a J230 I was about to take for a spin around the South Burnett, I got to chatting with a mum who was at the field in support of her son, all of 16 years of age taking flying lessons.He was running through a few circuits with my trusty CFI and mum and I were talking about the fact that her son was in the aircraft taking a lesson immediately before I started my first lesson, when he failed to plan for the worst and ate a wonderful Brumby's pie pre lesson...which he brought up mid lesson. We joked about the junior flight instructor getting out the aircraft with a worried look on his face crying that it was his first student to reverse gear in his aircraft and how a piece may have gone into his mouth...anyway that's another story for another time. Stay with me.

 

I told her that I was extremely apprehensive about getting in after he fogged the left hand seat window with a potato pie, but then commented and congratulated her on her efforts in cleaning up the mess and leaving no trace, be it odor or residue behind, enabling me to take flight also on my quest to pilot status, free of wafts and sights of the sickly kind.

 

Anyways, I could tell that she was proud of him for getting this far and I reinforced to her how she should be proud of him, for sticking with it and doing so well given that a lot of teenage kids achievements these days relate to far sinister activities. She was chuffed and then we both looked over, to see said CFI hop out of said J230, then start walking over to where we were standing, while J230 backtracked 16 YKRY for circuit...CFIless

 

"What's he doing?", she said.

 

I said, "Well, it looks like he's going solo. This is awesome, your son is going to fly on his own!"

 

"Oh." she said.

 

I remember looking at the expression on her face and that's when the reality and human component of this whole thing we love doing, came home. She was excited, nervous, apprehensive and downright terrified all at once. It was what I envisaged we all would have looked like the moment we rotated on our first solo and slipped the bounds of earth alone.

 

The point of the story, and yes there is one...is that the CFI came over and mum asked the question, "How do you know they are ready?"

 

The reply came straight away, "I ask myself if they are ready to take one of my family members for a fly."

 

After a nice landing with a lofty flair courtesy of my CFI's 75kg (his estimate, not mine) reduction in weight aboard, a J230 gave taxxied, called clear all runways and gave birth to a smiling young pilot. CFI, mum and I looked at each other and grinned at what we just witnessed. Here was a 16 y/o male in command of a +$100,000 machine putting a lot of theory and practical skill into reality.

 

It doesn't get any better than that!

I got goosebumps reading that relfy:laugh:

 

Pud

 

 

[Relfy]

I had some at the time too Pud! ;)

 

 

[Tomo]

Great story Refly, that's what it's all about! :thumb_up:

 

As for reverse gear in flight... I had my first experience the other day with a pax getting rid of his breakfast :ah_oh: My jacket I had in the back came in very handy... :thumb_up:

 

 

[Guest RaMpAgE]

that it was his first student to reverse gear in his aircraft and how a piece may have gone into his mouth...

GOLD!!

 

 

 

[Benjamin Pitt]

I've got 250 hours up. Now if you look at my landing I posted onto my you-tube site, you'd not believe me. I went solo after 15 hours, that's probably average.YouTube - KevinThePenniless's Channel

:ah_oh:

 

Bloody hell!

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Holy snappers kevin..... thats about as close as it gets, without actually getting there. wow. That really was awefull..:thumb_up:

 

 

[Tomo]

indeed... ouch, good job on the power up though :thumb_up:

 

 

[stanzahero]

I said "no" to the solo twice before I went.

 

He was happy with me but I'd done one rough landing at the start of the lesson and I wasn't game to go it alone.

 

 

[country kid]

ha ha unfortunatly my situation with spendoola (money) prevents me from fly on a regular basis :'( im working on it ha ha should have done my solo some time next year, i hope!!:thumb_up:

 

 

[monty]

Yeh Hi,

 

I went and did mine in one block over 10 days and was solo in 11 hours and licence in 21 that included 7.5 solo and 1.0 flight revue.

 

I think the all at once approach was really great for me but may not suit every one. I took holidays and went to Wayne Fisher at Lismore and rebuilt my Drifter at the same time.

 

We flew in every type of weather and times of the day. I only have 100 hours up since in 12 months and am still learning but haven't had a still day yet.

 

I am in Winton western Qld. The worst day on the coast has been my best day out here.

 

I think 20 hrs is enough with the right instructor. I have had 2 forced landing and was glad I learnt with Wayne.

 

Just my opinion.

 

Thanks

 

Monty

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I started learning in October last year and had no idea of what was average time to solo. I didn't ask either. I was only interested in competing with myself to try and ensure that I improved every lesson and learned something new.

 

I have a great CFI who is a born instructor. I flew the aircraft (XT-912-Streak3) from the beginning, with some gentle input from the CFI as needed. Always in calm conditions, either early morning or late afternoon. As the CFI said, "otherwise you are flying the conditions, not the aircraft." After 3 hours he said I was getting too used to that aircraft and put me in another XT-912-S3 that handled differently. Then an XT-912-SST.

 

At 10 hours I felt that the only thing I was struggling with was landings and so took three lessons on consecutive days. That nailed it and I went solo at 13 hours. Gained my Certificate at 21.5 hours, at which my CFI said "congratulations, youv'e now got a licence to learn." PAX about 6 hours later. I've just completed my Nav last week and am now at 54 hours. Why so long for the Nav? I wasn't in a hurry. I was enjoying flying in my 25nm radius and gaining experience. I deliberately picked Mount Beauty as a Nav destination so I could experience flying up some mountain valleys with my CFI in the back. My objective was to learn more than just navigation.

 

Between solo and getting my Certificate I was able to experience some less calm weather, the roughest was one day when the CFI said, "it will be safe but very uncomfortable." "You are the PIC." "What do you want to do." I said I'd give it a go and if it was too uncomfortable, we'd just end the flight. In the next hour I did 9 cross wind landings with wind gusting 20-25 kn on the ground and 40 kn at circuit height. Yes, my arms were still stiff the next day, but now I know that if I find myself in conditions like that, I'll know how to handle it. Up till that point my only cross wind landings had been in 7kn. Different technique altogether.

 

Since then, I've had updrafts and downdrafts that have pushed me up and down at up to 500'/min. I've flown in a layer that was gusting to 60kn, but I'm only to acutely aware that I really have very little experience at all and one of the things to be very careful of is not to fly out of ones capability.

 

Having lots of fun and learning all the time. Like I say to my staff at work, "The job is serious and important, but you also have to have some fun along the way."

 

This thread has been great to read about other's experiences too.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I enjoyed that thankyou David. I had a LONG time getting my licence/certificate, my first flight was as a Airforce Cadet in a Piper Tomahawk, in march 1987 Coolangatta. I flew drifters for a while, then the LSA jabiru, gain my pilot certificate in a LSA Jabiru in April 1997. Im not sure but i think 10 years might be close to a record.Reason i was 17 when i started didnt have much money. I had also the my RAAF carreer got in the way. So in a nut shell, it took 10 years and 33 hours.Cheers

 

 

[rdarby]

I think these stats need to consider that those who went solo in minimal time are probably the majority responding, it's not based on all pilots. You would need to get those figures from RAA if they are available.

 

Also you need to consider what you did before going solo. Someone who did just enough to get solo, then spent another 15 hours with the instructor learning everything else to be able to get the certificate can't be compared to someone like me who did the entire sylabus, then went solo, then did the final test in minimal time after that.

 

So someones 20 hours is not equal to someone elses without understanding their journey.

 

Also, based on instructors I have spoken to over the last 10 years, I flat out don't believe the figures. I think that if all RAA members were polled we would get closer to 20+ hours as the norm.

 

Ryan

 

 

[dazza 38]

It is pointless.It took me 15.1 hours in 3 different a/c.Piper Tomahawk, Huges Lightwing ,Finaly solo in the XP 503 Drifter.3 years 3 months in total.Had a break, marriage got in the way -about 5 years and a half years later i started again. Then had to relearn most of it Cert test in a Jabby LSA 55 6 months after the break 1997 Total Time 33 hours.At least i flew regulary for the last six months.LOL To get my Cert in 4 different A/c

 

PS- This is not recommended- It cost dollars to re learn things. Although Four a/c to cert test i do not recommend. But you learn alot flying different A/C.IMO

 

 

[facthunter]

Going Solo how soon?

 

The time to solo doesn't matter and people shouldn't compare them as though it has some bragging rites. There are a few hang-overs from the early "forces" attitudes. Like well if you don't solo by "X" hours you get scrubbed. The red Baron had a fairly inauspicious beginning......

 

Why send a pilot aloft with minimum skills? What if a wind change comes through during the circuit Can the pilot handle it? What if another plane crashes on the ONLY strip and the "new" pilot has to do a very good job with what is left or divert somewhere else.

 

A couple of pilots stated to have declined the offer till they were more confident. Good on him/her. Perhaps the idea of springing the event on the pilot is a bit melodramatic and what a pity if the pressure to fly THEN against his better judgement results in a bad outcome. The time should be negotiable. In fact It must be. Think about it.

 

There was a story of an instructor (at Newcastle) who removed his joystick, waved it in front of the student. (This is in a DH-82) and then threw it over the side. They were over the drome when this happened. This was supposed to show trust in the skills of the pupil. SOMEBODY worded up a particular student who was due for solo and being prepared, pulled a stick into view and waved it in front of the instructor and then tossed it over the side, as the instructor had done. Good trick that. (it was a spare). It is a good story anyhow. Knowing how things were done, it has a good chance of being true. Nev

 

 

[68volksy]

I personally have made a conscious decision that all minimum hours stated are irrelevant. My feeling is the more flying situations i'm exposed to with a competent instructor sitting beside me the better. The first offer to go solo I politely said i'd rather not as I was exhausted after a tough day at work. My instructor actually made the offer to me in such a way that I could answer honestly without any pressure or expectations.

 

The first solo and first training area solo were also discussed quite openly as I was getting close. The instructor made it clear that she would make a judgement as to my technical proficiency and it was up to me to make the judgement about my mental and physical proficiency.

 

I think the technical side of things can take anything from 1 lesson to 100 lessons or more to "click" and there are so many variables in the mix it's not funny. Being mentally and physically prepared without resorting to an over-active ego, peer pressure or bravado also takes time to develop.

 

 

[Chris Tarran]

I soloed yesterday at 14.5 hours. I had been having dificulty with flaring too early so took a bit longer than I probably should have. As it turned out yesterday I started to stick my landings consistently and the CFI said "pull up I'm out of here" (or words to that effect). In any case I probably would have declined any earlier as my personal confidence levels were not right. After he hopped out yesterday I simply did what I had been taught to do and had no butterflies at all despite having a couple of curve balls thrown in by opting to extend downwind to let an RPT in and having the RFDS miss my final call and enter the runway while I was on final (I simpy aborted and went round again).

 

Going back to the original question by Pelorus in my case I won't get my ticket at 20 hours as I still have some dual instruction to do in Forced Landings, Landing variations (Full Flap, No flap, Short field etc.). My guess is it will be 25 hours or so. No matter as I don't want my "ticket to fly" until my CFI is 100% confident I have the skills & knowledge to have it.

 

 

[shags_j]

Mate it takes a while to get used to exactly when to flare. In the next 3 or 4 hours you will have more than enough practice, trust us on this. Meanwhile grats.

 

Cheers,

 

Shags