Information Sharing

[Guest pelorus32]

I have been a member of a number of organisations that are associations, incorporated under the Associations Acts of various states, as well as other organisations.

 

Each of these organisations has provided me with:

 

1. Minutes of Board Meetings;
    
    
   
2. Annual Budgets;
    
    
   
3. Annual Financial Reports
    
    
   
4. Auditor's Reports on the Financial Reports of the organisation.
    
    
   

 

 

As they have been required to do by law.

 

In addition I have sat on Boards of Health Services and other organisations where, as the treasurer, I was required to report on at least some of these things to members.

 

I would be keen for current Board members or management of RAAus to explain why it is that RAAus is exempt from what I understand to be legislated requirements of the organisation.

 

I am not aware that members have ever been provided with either minutes of Board meetings or annual budgets or annual financial reports - in any meaningful and easily accessible way - such as via an insert to the magazine.

 

Perhaps I simply misunderstand the situation but I know that, along with other members, I would be grateful for an explanation on this dearth of reporting.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

Hi Mike,

 

Are you saying Board Meeting Minutes have to be distributed to members?

 

I can understand Annual Financials including Auditors reports etc. but regular Board meeting minutes to all and sundry seems a little onerous not to mention highly contentious.

 

I pose this as a question rather than a statement of knowledge.

 

Look forward to your thoughts.

 

Cheers JL

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'm with Pelorus on this one.

 

I've had to operate in the way he says, dealing with some 30 sub Associations who were ready to take my teeth out at the slightest glitch.

 

Believe me the first time you make a stupid decision is usually so painful that from then on every decision is debated from all sides and made very carefully, opinions are sought before the decisions are made, and explained in detail afterwards. The money is spent equally carefully.

 

I took the view that the money belonged to the members who were paying annual subscriptions to enjoy their sport, and our job

 

was to secure that at the most economical level possible.

 

It also meant getting organised to ensure the reporting was prompt which had the side effect of making the formal reports less onerous.

 

 

[Guest Orion]

Tis a bit strange to be required to provide minutes and it would be interesting to see the piece of legislation that imposes that upon the board or more precisely the secretary of the board.

 

The normal process is to make available to any member the minutes should they wish to peruse them, and some do from time to time.

 

Naturally annually the board reports to the members including on matters financial, including the auditors report.

 

 

[Guest brentc]

You would need to get a copy of the constitution to see if they are obliged to freely provide this information. If they are, well then yes, it should be puslished somewhere.

 

If you REALLY need / want the information, then it is all available by visiting the office, including members, their details, aircraft registrations and the whole works. There are no 'privacy' issues or legislations when you're talking about an association that I am aware of. In theory when you join (atleast in Vic anyway) you are supposed to be furnished with a copy of the constitution and the details of all other members.

 

In Vic, it's all on the Consumer Affairs website.

 

 

[Guest Orion]

Brent

 

Sorry pal but your dead wrong about the privacy aspect.

 

There is a little thing called the privacy act which compels by legislation,the proper safeguarding of an individuals personal information, with i might add some pretty hefty penalties including criminal for improperly dealing with personal imformation.

 

To disclose information about an individual, that is held by an organization is a breach of the privacy act in many if not most circumstances. Because you are an organization doesn't exclude you from the obligation in many ways it adds to the obligation.

 

Organizations are required these days to outline their privacy policies these days.

 

As far as associations go, both incorporated and unincorporated, they are governed by state legislation.

 

While each state act is different, thy are similar and tend to deal with the broad issues the same.

 

Many associations that are incorporated don't actually have a written constitution but instead adopt the model constitution found in each state Act.

 

Your spot on about the constitution of an association, you should read it as often they contain variations to the model rules, maybe, such as described earlier about the need to provide minutes to each member. Thats certainly not in the model rules and frankly any association that required each member to physically receive a copy of the board minutes needs to take a long hard look at itself. Administratively it a pain in the bum and frankly a waste of resources. The commonsense approach is to have minutes available for perusal on demand of a member, which is normal and standard practice.

 

kent

 

 

[Gibbo]

Can't remember where I saw it but the general comment about the boards minutes not being made available was that;

 

"We don't want our opposition to see what we are discussing and planning".

 

I do agree that there is a general lack of transparency within the RAaus world. Balance sheets anyone?

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

A bit more information may be apt on ‘Board Workings’ perhaps so there is increased clarity.

 

 

I am not sure if this still applies but it did when I was on the Board. Those familiar with most club committee meetings may have visions of somebody sitting there scribbling minutes then taking them away to be typed up.

 

 

That would be quite a chore on a three day Board Meeting so the ‘minutes’ (or more accurately the proceedings) are taken by tape recorder. That is with the exception of any time the Board goes ‘into Camera’ and at this time the recorder is switched off until the Board returns to open business. The recording is then subsequently typed up as a hard record – or I believed was supposed to be but the very few that I saw were virtually a heading synopsis and recording of motions etc.

 

 

Although people may have some reservations about this it does give some privacy to the Board and more importantly enables information to be divulged openly that individual Board members may not want to go on a public record for litigation reasons.

 

 

A viewpoint may be put forward that ‘if you cannot prove it then do not say it’ but come on!!!! Let us not be children. A lot of the scams etc that go on thrive because they are verbal and cannot therefore be easily proven. That does not mean a report is not true and if that information can come out then surrounding circumstances may be controlled in different ways to a major confrontation that may not be sustainable anyway in a court of law.

 

 

Having said all that – when I wanted to table minutes of previous recent meetings I was usually faced with the ‘recordings have not been typed up yet’. This enabled frequent slips in procedure because without the previous minutes any business ‘carried forward’ often simply vanished. This also had the effect of diverting the Board from an on-going flow of activity on subjects that cannot be resolved between Board Meetings, or can never be resolved if they are not addressed at all.

 

 

But I still think it impractical for all members to be furnished with copies of Board Meeting minutes. On the other hand it would be quite practical for a synopsis of Board Meeting business to be published in the magazine so the members can see the sort of areas that the Board is working on and what progress is being made.

 

 

This would be a good way of reducing the impression of ‘Us and Them’ that still persists.

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

A Board meeting of any organisation/association should not be called (other than a special meeting) in the absence of minutes of the previous meeting being in the hands of all Board Members......I'm talking generally now, not specifically in relation to the RAA-Aus as I have no knowledge of their procedures.

 

Otherwise, how can business be conducted in a professional manner?

 

Resolutions of the board should be minuted in the exact language of the resolution as these become a legal document.

 

Cheers

 

JL

 

 

[Yenn]

I wonder what rules the RAAus works under.

 

I would assume that there must be rules of association and also an audit of the books

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

Yenn - why not take the advice so often offered here - simply contact your local Board Rep and ask!

 

Then print out the reply here please!

 

 

[Yenn]

Tony. I was just musing aloud, not really concerned as i know there must be rules.

 

I think Carol has summed it up fairly well.

 

What really XXXXes me off is people who cast aspersions about how the association is run, but never put any hard evidence in writing. I know that if they do they will have to stand by what they say and that is probably what holds them back.

 

Personally when I have a bone to pick with the association, I will contact them directly and expect a reply, but at the moment I see no evidence of anything amiss.

 

 

[cazza]

I I am not aware that members have ever been provided with either minutes of Board meetings or annual budgets or annual financial reports - in any meaningful and easily accessible way - such as via an insert to the magazine.

Perhaps I simply misunderstand the situation but I know that, along with other members, I would be grateful for an explanation on this dearth of reporting.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

Dear Mike,

 

 

 

RA-Aus is available to provide information to members. In fact, the obligation is enshrined in our constitution.

 

 

 

" The Records, books and other documents of the Association shall be open to inspection at a place in the ACT, free of charge, by a Member of the Association - on request at any reasonable hour".

 

 

 

Additionally, members are invited to the AGM where minutes, audited financial reports, and other business reports are available to anyone who attends in hard copy and available to any other members who wish to get a copy. Members need only to ask. They are not required to come to Canberra for the AGM minutes and reports or other Board reports.

 

 

 

The other Board meeting in the year (there are only two, the AGM and one other) is also open to members and copies of documents are made available to them as well. If other members are interested in the minutes, they need to contact the office and ask for a copy.

 

 

 

But why do we not put them in the magazine? We could make two issues a year nothing but Board minutes and reports. However, our magazine is sold on newsstands and members may not be happy with a magazine that no one wants to put ads in because there is no interesting content other than dry Board minutes. We would also lose the extra income we get because who would buy them on the newsstand. Do we want to lose our printer and our advertisers? Can we put the Board minutes in as an insert? It would be too bulky (my last Board minutes were 11 pages and another 50 pages of reports and information) so we would have to do a separate print and mail out and it would cost some ten thousands of dollars which cannot be used for the work of the organization. And how many members actually want to read them? How many members (who are not instructors) read the Ops manual when it was printed?

 

 

So how do we report to the membership? The way we disseminate information about the ongoing business of the organization and the results of the Board meetings is through the articles written by the management EVERY month. Every month, our CEO writes an article for the members outlining the work of the association. Every month our Ops manager and Technical manager write about the issues of concern to the membership. Every month our president informs the membership about the issues we are working on. Every month I write an article on Your RA-Aus as work to outline the projects we are engaging in for the members. The important issues are reported there. We think this is a much more ‘user friendly’ way to pass information on, that putting up the Board minutes that read like this: “The Historian’s report was accepted. Moved, Dave, Seconded John. Carried. The CEO’s report was accepted, etc.”

 

 

 

The Board Members of RA-Aus should not be confused with Board Members of big corporations. We are not well paid, suited executives with an agenda to make ourselves more important and earn more money. We are volunteers. We are the flight instructor who trains students, keeps up with the regulations, tries to make a living, feed our families, mow the lawn. We are retired business people or academics who live next door, helping you with your airplane when you need a tool, or advice; who want to contribute and do the best for the members we can. We were elected by the membership. If any member has any concern or wants to know anything that has not been reported in the magazine, they need only to contact their representative. And if they are not happy with their representative, after talking to them, they should nominate for the Board or vote for someone else.

 

 

 

It is easy to attack that which we do not understand or know. As a Board member I am there for you – the membership. Talk to me. Talk to your Member. Put in your suggestions. All of the proposals I take to the Board come from the membership. You put me there, now use me for information that you want. I believe we try to be transparent and open. I sincerely believe we are there for the organization and not for our own benefit. Can we do things better? Yes of course and we are working on a huge number of organizational tasks, like a comprehensive review of the Board, roles, responsibilities, processes. We are using expert help with this task. And when we come to a solution, we will put it to the membership as it will probably entail changes to our Constitution to make our organization more efficient and in line with world best practice.

 

 

 

Carol Richards, Board Member for NSW

 

 

[turboplanner]

Thanks Carol for the explanation, and your comments on over packing the RAA Magazine with housekeeping.

 

One solution would be to simply upload the information to the RAA website, thus taking away a lot of the workload you speak of.

 

In that way, background information can be provided to support your sample motions “The Historian’s report was accepted. Moved, Dave, Seconded John. Carried. The CEO’s report was accepted, etc.”

 

 

 

We are not in competition with anyone, and these reports ultimately are visible to others via Department of Justice etc (depending on the State/Territory)

 

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Thanks Carol,

 

I'm sure that that is information that many members were not aware of.

 

It's of course up to individuals whether they request the info or not.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

" The Record, books and other documents of the association etc. etc.,"....Carol.

 

Just about says it all.

 

Cheers

 

JL

 

 

[Guest L/D]

I personally would like to see a 1 pager in the magazine outlining all the resolutions that have been passed and declined.

 

eg:

 

Motion to reduce membership fee to $10 - Passed/Failed

 

Motion to .... - Passed/Failed and so on...

 

There are not enough resolutions in the meetings to fill up more than 1/4 page in the mag using 8 size font.

 

 

[cazza]

I am not sure how you got your 1/4 of a page information.

 

There were 65 motions in the 3 days of the last Board meeting, as well as 10 items of Business tabled. One line gives no useful information, and members would be crying out for the full story - hence another 60 pages. That is why the President, CEO and others write articles in the magazine expanding on the Board discussions and decisions.

 

Cazza

 

 

[turboplanner]

There were 65 motions in the 3 days of the last Board meeting, as well as 10 items of Business tabled. One line gives no useful information, and members would be crying out for the full story - hence another 60 pages. That is why the President, CEO and others write articles in the magazine expanding on the Board discussions and decisions.Cazza

Very easily resolved Cazza - just print the 60 pages to a pdf file and post it on the RAA website after each Board Meeting.

 

Virtually every Council in Australia does that now, and the positives far outweigh the negatives.

 

Members concerned about where their money is going can be reassured, and in most cases people begin to realise just how much detailed work is required in order to run the Organization.

 

It also removes any doubt about which direction the organization is moving in, and makes it easier to decide on candidates at the elections (by that I mean retaining the members who are worth their weight in gold because of the good work they do).

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

I think I'd rather go flying than add to an already massive load of reading material which daily inflicts itself on my life.

 

Based on the generally poor response of members even bothering to vote in the RAA-Aus elections I wonder realistically how many members would make voting decisions based on Board meeting minutes ......but thats just me.

 

"....Records open for inspection if required" gets my vote.

 

Cheers

 

JL

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Publishing the minutes of board meetings as a pdf on the website sounds like the way to go IMO.

 

John

 

 

[facthunter]

Some Restriction.

 

I don't see the point of making it too available to non financial members. It is primarily an obligation to inform the "shareholders".... US. Nev

 

 

[MrH]

Use password access to web page that contains pdf.

 

Say, name & membership number. Then those that want it can

 

H

 

 

[turboplanner]

Councils are a good example. Almost all of them now post the meeting Agenda a couple of days before the meeting and the minutes a couple of days after.

 

If there's an issue coming up which affects you, you can talk to your representative before the meeting, and if something controversial comes up, the minutes kill the rumour mill.

 

No problems having passworded access, and not everyone will be interested, but right now most of the recreational aviation action seems to be taking place on this site and the RAA site is very lonely.

 

As far as assuming the people you elect are representing you effectively, history in Australia says its smart to check what's going on now and then. Those that don't frequently feature in current affairs shows.

 

That's not to imply that anything other than hard work is going on at RAA - just that we don't know and the solution is so easy.