Today tonight

[shafs64]

Hi

 

Guys Just saw an add for the Today Tonight show and here is a story about flying I won't tell you what its about.

 

but you should watch it.

 

Paul

 

 

[winsor68]

ah winda wit da cloud b howbat? (Translation...I wonder what that could be about?)

 

 

[shafs64]

Well all pilots who have flown out of major city GA airports will know what windsor is talking about.

 

Paul

 

 

[GraemeK]

Apart from some bad static, most of the calls were reasonably intelligible.

 

Got a real laugh from their mistranslation of an ATC call as "at bang Point Ormond". :hittinghead:

 

While I know there are problems, this program totally missed the mark I'm afraid ....

 

EDIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wV743JSd-bI"

 

 

[Ultralights]

compared to what we hear every day at bankstown, they all got 9/10! you know its bad when you hear the tower at bankstown say this... "cessna ABC, do you know where the aiport is?" ABC in thick foreign accent.. "yes" tower " then bloody go to it!!!"

 

 

[winsor68]

mmm...I've got one word to say....MediaWatch!

 

 

[BLA82]

I agree with the last pilot "must be frustrating not to mention dangerous

 

 

[BLA82]

I just added the video to our Libary thanks GrameK:thumb_up:

 

 

[Westland]

Racism on mainstream TV.

 

Prefer pilots who try to communicate according to rules and regulations to the ones who think they own the language and get away with Messagecolloquial chat.

 

ATC have to learn that English is not the only language in the world and people fly all over the world. Anyone in aviation who cannot handle this should stick to driving a car.

 

 

[winsor68]

Agreed...flying is an international pastime...I thought it was quite funny and showed what a beat up this story is when the reporter mis-quoted the controller...obviously they could not understand him either....

 

Now...before anyone gets in points out about all the problems with comms on the airways...remember that the problem is comms in general...not just the comms of foreign pilots...

 

 

[Simonflyer]

I understood every word apart from the static..

 

 

[facthunter]

English language.

 

Every country has to comply with the need to use the english language (ICAO standard). That is fortunate for us as we speak it. The programme as presented did not make a convincing argument that there was a problem. Radios fitted to aircraft are not Hi-fidelity. Apart from some strong accents I could not see that there was much of a problem. The presentation was unconvincing, whatever point they were trying to make. (and I think we are all aware of what it was). I have flown overseas (briefly) at provincial airports in continental Europe where you have to make allowances even though the english is supposed to be the standard. These oversease pilots have not done a bad job under the circumstances. "Their australian is a lot better than MY mandarin". I am not suggesting that some improvements could not be made and that there are not not genuine areas of concern. ALL pilots should talk slower and more clearly on the R/T. Nev

 

 

[Guest drizzt1978]

To be honest If i cant understand them when I am flying, I will ask them to repeat, or if they give a call with missing data, eg height or distance, I ask them.....

 

Its bad, they need to have anuciation lessons, not english lessons.....fairdinkim mate.....

 

 

[Thx1137]

There was only one call I had problems with in the program but I sometimes have problems around my way with some pilots treating comms as some sort of race.

 

 

[Guest mike_perth]

I fly in the GA side and as such regularly fly in and out of the training area here in Perth from Jandakot.

 

There are several ways into and out of Jandakot but as a student pilot I must return via the reporting point Forrestdale Lake making and inbound call before the lake at 6 miles out and then when at the lake.

 

My instructor and I as well as me by myself have heard numerous calls from foreign students making inbound calls from "6 South" literally seconds after I have made the same call obviously this has alerted us to start taking a closer look behind and around us to the point where several times we have asked ATC to confirm the aircrafts position and what do you know the aircraft is actually 3 or 4 miles behind us!

 

All this done in the hope that they will save a few dollars and be put in before any other traffic as they made the first call! We have also seen other aircraft make inbound calls whilst over the coast reporting that they are at another reporting point "Adventure World" which would be 3 miles from the coastline!

 

So not only are their calls almost impossible to understand they are regularly reporting that they are at a certain point and arnt.

 

I have absolutlely no problem with trying to save a few dollars because as we all know this isnt a cheap hobby but at the risk of your life and others is it worth it???

 

Mike

 

 

[shafs64]

I like how they put the child in there giveing the idea that an aircraft is going to fall out of the sky hurt that child.

 

Funny how they are not doing storys about how bankstowns airport is screwing GA flying there and camden.

 

I hope media watch get on this one.

 

shafs

 

 

[Tracktop]

I often run a scanner and listen to local traffic as an aid to my flight training.

 

Funny - today some accented transmissions who I regularly have great difficulty understanding, were very clear and precise in their reporting. I wonder what they watched on TV last night

 

Maybe that show should be run more often.

 

Being new to aviation I would have to say I have been amazed to find in this day and age the quality of many transmissions (static / background noise /etc ) to be well below what I would consider acceptable communication standards. I often think I am listening to an old B & W war movie but it seems to be accepted as OK.

 

Yes if you listen long and often enough you get much better at knowing what is said in these crackly episodes, no doubt the old hands can understand every word but does that really make for a safe sky?

 

Ray

 

 

[facthunter]

Understanding.

 

You are dead right Tracktop. First of all aircraft radios are poor. If your phone sounded like it you would get it fixed. Then you mention the pace . Why talk so fast? Experienced pilots are OK at recognising standard phraseology, but as standards drop (and they have)fewer people use it.The main aim is to get your message across, not make a call just because the system requires that you report BLA BLA... There is a reason why you should do it so it should be regarded as a matter of some importance. Make sure that it works.Nev..

 

 

[shags_j]

Quick note that to get a student license the CFI needs to say that you're english is acceptable.

 

 

[Guest watto]

Realistically, it must be difficult to in addition to learning to fly and gain a commercial Pilots lisence to have to learn and understand another language as well!! I know a number of people whom where born here and struggle with english so give these poor buggers a chance they need experience in speaking english as well as flying and need to get it somewhere and an english speaking country is the obvious place to ensure you get exposure to it.

 

We where all students in the past and if you are a wise man you will always be a student!!

 

Watto

 

 

[shags_j]

But you don't become an accountant without knowing how to turn on a calculator.

 

I agree they should be given a bit of a break but I would expect to understand someone on the radio.

 

That being said, I have regularly not been able ot understand people from an english speaking background on the radio. Maybe they should be looking at clarity of all radio calls a little more stringently in exams.

 

 

[Guest watto]

Yes, but you do not become proficient without practice and exposure to something and these guys are students so I do not understand the rational behind dumping on people who are in the process of trying to do the right thing such as learn correct language and procedures.

 

They will not learn it all from a book.

 

Watto

 

 

[Guest watto]

I do appologise for my passion for this subject but I am married to a person from a non english speaking background and I teach Cultural diversity in the work place as well so I can see things from both perspectives.

 

Watto

 

 

[Mazda]

I think the story itself missed the mark, but there is an issue at times. I think part of the problem is some foreign students learn the calls perfectly, but they don't really understand, and don't know what to say if things don't turn out as they expect. Such as if a controller says "remain outside controlled airspace" instead of the expected reply, the student will launch into the perfect reply, 'reading back' the expected clearance they haven't actually been given, and planning to just keep on flying in without a clearance. I've heard it.

 

I've also heard them giving a perfect call of where they are (such as at an inbound point or a circuit leg) but they are not where they say they are. The calls are word perfect, but it is not where they actually are.

 

The other thing I've heard some do is to coach each other on the numbers frequency. One will be doing a "solo" nav, and calling up their friends on numbers to ask for advice. Get onto numbers and listen to the chatter!

 

I heard some good stories about flying schools in the past setting up a circuit in the hangar using bicycles (so the students still have to actually do something and think about spacing etc while talking), with instructors pretending to be controllers, and if the students get it wrong they are taken aside and given a briefing. I wonder if that still happens?

 

 

[Guest watto]

Mazda, I agree with what you have said so maybe some of this comes down to students being set loose when they are not yet ready!! as apposed to saying the language is 100% the barrier then perhaps the schools and CFI's may be contributing by pushing them through to fast, also I have notice when you spend time with someone you understand them easier and especially face to face so perhaps this is the case with the CFI's that they think hey I can understand him now he must have improved so mistakenly these poor guys are cut loose but realistically need more supervised exposure.

 

Watto