Radio call syntax

[Flyingphot]

After the Today Tonight program last night I just have to air my favourite gripe. I know the book says to start all transmissions with the words " xxxx traffic" and then proceed with your call, and I find most schools instruct students in this manner but I maintain it is wrong, wrong, wrong. I strongly believe the transmission should start "traffic xxxx". The reason for this is the same as the leading word, or attention getter, in a military command, ie (in the airforce) "Flight, Quick March". The leading word gains the attention of the intended audience and then the command, or information, is given. I fly a lot around the Sunshine Coast where we have Caloundra, Caboolture and Redcliffe airfields sharing the same CTAF. On a fine weekend morning it is very hard to get a word in and listening to calls often leaves you wondering which airfield the last caller was heading to. ( YCDR and YCAB both have 12/30 strips to add to the confusion)

 

It is also a requirement to end a transmission with "traffic xxx" but I notice many pilots don't and I get the feeling some schools don't require their students to do this.

 

This problem is exacerbated by the tendency for modern radios with vox mikes to clip the first word. If the word "traffic" is clipped it does not matter as it has still gain attention and the next word "xxxx" is the important one.

 

I know many pilots already use the "traffic xxxx" method but I wish everyone would as it is a real problem at times.

 

(Or maybe I'm just a deaf old fart)

 

What do others think?

 

Cheers, Bill

 

 

[Tomo]

I see your point, yes I do the xxxx traffic one, only 'cause that's what I'm taught. But your reasoning make sense, so I may change after I get my certificate...:thumb_up:

 

:big_grin:

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Old school types are more prone to start with "All Traffic###" for exactly the reasons Bill gave. If you are a little preoccupied with mapwork , or talking to passenger ect you do tend to miss the first word or so. Listening to my scanner hardly anyone finishes with '###traffic'.

 

The reason CASA gave for the change was to reduce the time taken to transmit the call, citing congestion in busy areas. The amount of transmissions may have increased a fair bit over the years but this does not save transmission times . bet the term 'SAY AGAIN LOCATION' actually undoes the intention.

 

I actually think that the change by CASA was more for 'change for the sake of change' as usual.

 

 

[BigPete]

So I'm not the only one - well done Bill, :thumb_up: I've been on the same wave length for a long time. :big_grin:

 

Now if we cam just convert the rest........

 

regards

 

:big_grin::big_grin:

 

 

[turboplanner]

Very good point, but I understand we changed from "All stations Caloundra" to "Caloundra Traffic" with the tag on the transmission "Caloundra" to conform to an ICAO standard plus the "All stations" referred to everyone on the air.

 

We get the same frustration at Tooradin which frequently picks up Melton on the same frequency, which means ou have to listen to a fuzzy transmission, but you then wait for the tag, and it forms a pattern after a while.

 

For that reason, its very important not to forget the tag.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Ya know what gets my goat??.. guys who give calls in the third person...Like, " jabiru 1234 'rolls' runway blah bla".. or "turns downwind"... Its like they aren't even in the aeroplane, but watching it from the clubhouse...

 

 

[jacmiles]

Bill,im a new pilot and am always missing the first part of radio broadcasts. I think your right and will try to switch around.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

A couple of years ago CASA sent me a DVD along with a book demonstraing the 'new' way to transmit in the circuit. maybe they should be reissued or CASA asked to change the regs back to what they were

 

 

[turboplanner]

They've been doing it since the Department of Civil Aviation days, so it's just one of the hazards we face.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Does it really matter so long as your intentions are clear and other pilots know where you are. I agree with the "attention getter" method but was taught the other. However, I finish with just the location, and presumably, that's because maybe someone wasn't paying attention in the first place.

 

 

[facthunter]

Personalising it.

 

Don't even think of personalising your transmissions. The R/Tactivity is not the area to do your own thing. Merv,s comments refer. The repetition of the locality achieves the purpose at the end. IF you don't do DO IT, and talk slower and more clearly. The standard way of doing it makes it all the more understandable. They are world-wide. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea.. Im a real nanna when it comes to radio.. I don't like people 'personalising' like Nev said. It is a big deal, phraseology, clarity and brievety all help to maximise situational awareness for all in the air.. A big part of becoming proficient is the being able to understand whats been said.. We all know that radio's are often weak, hashy, and thick accent's certainly don't help. But repetition is the thing.. We hear the calls so often that we become accostomed to expect the right info in the right order so that perfect reception isn't needed, we hear the distance out, the altitude etc, we may not get the callsign but the vital stuff is there..

 

Also there's the profesionalism thing.. The only way for other pilots to get any idea about what sort of pilot they are dealing with is by the quality of the calls.. we very rarely see each other with enough detail to make a judgment on flying skills and professionalism.. But our calls go out to the world.. I must admitt i do get a little nervous when i hear dodgy calls when i can't see the guy..

 

Standardised phraseology is not only confined to radio calls either.. Im reminded of the qantas first officer on his second attempt at a captains test.. He flew a great flight but was knocked back on 'standardised phraseology' when he said "dangle the dunlops" instead of "gear down" ...a little anal i know, but you get my drift...

 

 

[Ben Longden]

The biggest bugbears are clipping the mike - that is, speaking and then pressing the talk switch, and also gabbling.

 

A lot of pilots (read; first commercial job) after getting their PPl speak at such a high rate of speech their words are like bullets from a gatling gun.

 

Think about what you are about to say, then speak it at normal speed.

 

I dunno about you, but my brain receives speech at the same rate I send it..

 

Ben

 

 

[Orienteer]

Ya know what gets my goat??.. guys who give calls in the third person...Like, " jabiru 1234 'rolls' runway blah bla".. or "turns downwind"... Its like they aren't even in the aeroplane, but watching it from the clubhouse...

I got myself into the habit of doing this early on, one instructor told me that it made me sound more like a commercial pilot (i took it as a compliment at the time). Though another instructor of mine really gave it to me for that technique, i don't do it anymore, and i see his point and your point.

 

 

[MrH]

Correct operation of the radio should be taught - press & hold the PTT then speak.

 

That way first words aren't clipped. Only need a seconds pause.

 

H

 

 

[GraemeK]

While I follow the rules and use "XXXX Traffic" I agree that the reverse is much better (although by adding the tag at the end it should be OK).

 

As far as CTAF's go, other fields using the same frequency can be confusing. We share 119.1 with YCEM (makes sense because we're so close and it would be dangerous to have different frequencies anyway) and with YPID (a nuisance, mainly unintelligible but interferes with our transmissions especially when the circuit is busy).

 

As for the third person phrasing (even worse is "turns finals"), it annoys me as well. We are also trained to (where possible) make the call just before turning - that way anyone hearing the call and looking out has a better chance of seeing you as the wings bank.

 

 

[John Brandon]

The use of the collective terms (location) Traffic or Traffic (location) to precede a general information broadcast has presumably been promoted by CASA, but not in any authoritative document. However Airservices Australia's Aeronautical Information Publication Book — is an 'authoritative' document and legislatively 'superior' to the VFR Flight Guide (for example). AIP ENR 68.4 continues to state 'Use of the collective "ALL STATIONS" must precede a general information broadcast.' Note the word 'must'. So CASA is ignoring Airservices rules in pushing for either (location) Traffic or Traffic (location).

 

However some time ago I opted for the term (location) Traffic in the R/T procedures section of the VHF comms guide — R/T procedures but I guess you can use any of the three variations. When I think about it now I still prefer the 'All stations' call, it fits better with the Class Licence.

 

John Brandon

 

 

[Guest Decca]

I know that I may get a lot of flack over this post.

 

I have experienced in a Professional career that the people who could benefit the most are those who would prefer to ignore such advice.

 

Thanks for chiming in here John.

 

I’ve been trying to get my head around this thread & in some non-intimidating way suggest that Standard Operating Procedures (SOP’s) are ideally spelt out in the Visual Flight Rules Guide.

 

The VFR Guide states in plain simple English the requirements of the rules - the rules being Civil Aviation Regulations (CAR’s) and Air Navigation Orders (ANO’s).

 

 

Rules are made to protect the innocent. That is, if one breaks the rules, they can legally be made liable for the damage & trauma that they inflict on others.

 

Now the VFR Guide interprets the rules (and “quotes” them for many different operational fundamentals of all flying activities).

 

It doesn’t matter whether you are a recreational flyer or a commercial or Senior Air Transport Pilot.

 

We are all the same, in that we share the same airspace in the recreational environment whether we like it or not!

 

CRUNCH TIME

 

Whatever you have been taught by your instructor, be prepared to accept that:

 

1. You have been taught wrong.

 

2. You have adopted bad habits.

 

3. You haven’t been taught at all.

 

4. You were taught a long time ago, and that things have changed.

 

Within this thread, there are comments that indicate to me that some of us are not even aware that there is such a thing as the Visual Flight Rules Guide.

 

If you have one, read it.

 

If you don’t have one, get one, and read it.

 

If you can’t afford a little over $30 for it, download it for free. (And read it).

 

If you can’t download it because you have limited download ability, pm me (and read it).

 

In closing there are other threads that these sentiments apply equally to, eg “stopping at runway holding points”.

 

Regards, Decca.

 

PS: As a viable alternative, the RAAus site has very good instructional material for our level of professionalism as recreational pilots.

 

 

[ahlocks]

John,

 

 

 

Agree that "Traffic" or "All stations" followed by location makes the most sense to reduce the importance of the first word in case of being clipped, but our esteemed regulator doesn't unfortunately.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Here's the obligatory reference;

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

CAR 1988

 

 

 

82A Use of radiocommunication systems: words and phrases to be

 

 

 

used

 

 

 

(1) CASA may give directions in relation to the words and phrases to be

 

 

 

used in communicating with, or in relation to, aircraft, using

 

 

 

radiocommunication systems approved under subregulation 82 (1).

 

 

 

 

(2) A direction must be published in AIP or NOTAMS.

 

AIP Part two - Enroute

 

21.

 

RADIO COMMUNICATION AND NAVIGATION REQUIREMENTS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



e. {Location}

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

 

 

21.1.12 The standard broadcast format is;

 

 

 

 

 

 

a. {Location} Traffic

 

b. {Aircraft type}

 

c. {Callsign}

 

d. {Position/intentions}

 

 

 

 

 

[ahlocks]

I know that I may get a lot of flack over this post.

Decca,

 

If you cop any flak fom that post, the haranguers need to be taken out the back and flogged with a wet fish.

 

Well done! :thumb_up:

 

Cheers!

 

Steven B.

 

 

[tangocharlie123]

As another alternative to D/L the visual flight guide is that it is on the RAAUS CD issued last year.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Admin]

Didn't the rule about saying "All Traffic" etc come in about 4 years ago at the same time as straight in approaches - my memory aint what it use to be though!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes Ian, it's in the 2005 package

 

 

[Guest Ken deVos]

Visual Flight Rules Guide

 

Slightly off-topic, but the following post details some errors in the Visual Flight Rules Guide [Ver 2, July 2007, CASA]

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/forum/72060-post27.html

 

 

[Tomo]

21.

 

 

 

 

RADIO COMMUNICATION AND NAVIGATION REQUIREMENTS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 



e. {Location}

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 





 

 

 

 

 

21.1.12 The standard broadcast format is;

 

 

 

 

 

 

a. {Location} Traffic

 

b. {Aircraft type}

 

c. {Callsign}

 

d. {Position/intentions}

 

So Theoretically if you do the "Traffic xxxx" it's just down right wrong in there books?