Seeking advice on instructor rating

[Guest MikeHotel]

Hi, I am seeking advice from the RA training experts here:

 

I hold a PPL(A) with SEA instrument and night ratings and have about 430 hours total experience (230 PIC) including some twin and time. The CPL(A) is underway (some more theory to do), and I want to tackle the instructor rating next. I have zero time on RA aeroplanes

 

Looking at the great growth rates in recreational aviation, I am deliberating whether to go down the GA or RA route -- I might end up doing both -- but at the moment I simply don't know enough about instructing in the RA world. I've had a look at the Operations Manual, so here are my questions:

 

I assume I'd need to transfer the PPL to a recreational certificate and then do the instructor course?! How much would that set me back?

 

Also it seems that due to my lack of hours on recreational aeroplanes, I'd still need to rack up 25 hours PIC in a RA aircraft, correct? How is this usually done, i.e. most cost-effective? I own a Piper Archer (MTOW 1156kg), btw, so I'd be able to do an hour swap or something with an RA aircraft owner who wants to do some GA flying!

 

How much is a recreational instructor usually paid, and is there demand at the moment around Brisbane?

 

aTdHvAaNnKcSe for your help :thumb_up:

 

MH

 

 

[Tomo]

G'day MH, and welcome to the forums...:thumb_up:

 

I assume I'd need to transfer the PPL to a recreational certificate and then do the instructor course?! How much would that set me back?

I'm not real sure about your instructor bits, but to get your RAA ticket is a fairly straight forward process... (A guy at the school where I'm training is doing his)

 

Basically all you have to do is, apply for your student license off the RAA (well find a RAA flight school first I guess, and pick which aircraft you'd like to use) then there is 5 hours of solo flying after you get the hang of the new aircraft. (and are sent solo obviously!)

 

If you've never flown anything small (ish!) you'll be surprised at how much you've got to actually fly the things!! and some people find out that they've actually got to sort of learn to fly all over again!

 

Cost wise you'll probably be surprised! coming from a GA background anyway! At the school I'm using it's ~ $130 dual an hour for a Drifter (open cockpit style ultralight), and $160 dual an hour for the Jabiru J120 ~ Informal ground briefing is free.

 

I was looking at a GA school the other day, and I nearly hit the roof!! they averaged around the $250-260 an hour! That would certainly nock the fun out of it for me that's for sure!

 

BTW, You may notice that flying a RAA aircraft may not hurt the pocket as much when it comes to fuel either... the J120 at our school averages about 14lts an hour!! at 100kts:thumb_up:

 

I better stop rambling on now:blush:

 

There's quite a few RAA instructors on here, so they'll help you out I'm sure:thumb_up:

 

Ps. Once you start, you'll love it...!

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

Yes its pretty much what you figured out from the ops manual.

 

RAAus certificate = $500 - $1000 (depends how different the type is to what your used to)

 

25 hours PIC of RAAus = $3500 if you have to hire from a school.

 

Instructor course = $6000

 

Costs are very approximate but, unless you own the school (or at very least the aircraft you are training in) you probably aren't going to make a living as an RAAus instructor IMO.

 

Cheers

 

John

 

 

[Guest Crezzi]

there is 5 hours of solo flying after you get the hang of the new aircraft. (and are sent solo obviously!)

There's no requirement for 5 hours solo. If converting onto a high performance RAAus type or if PPL hours were in an RAAus type aircraft it might not even take 5 hours total - its competency based and at CFI distrection.

 

 

[Tomo]

There's no requirement for 5 hours solo. If converting onto a high performance RAAus type or if PPL hours were in an RAAus type aircraft it might not even take 5 hours total - its competency based and at CFI distrection.

Oh yes! thanks for pointing that out Crezzi... I forgot about the HP thingy! What I was thinking was if you changed to LP...

 

 

[facthunter]

RAAus experience.

 

Coming from GA to SOME RAAus types might be fairly easy, but students would expect a good general knowledge of ALL types as you will have to field questions about types that some might want to purchase, or are curuous about.. The more "different" types you fly, the more versatile you will be. Fly aircraft all across the spectrum. The more the better. Your students are as varied as the aircraft too. and some start at a late age and have various aptitude and knowledge base. Some may want to go on to airlines and some may only want to fly locally in a very basic plane.

 

Personally, if you want to do this very challenging job to a high standard, don't think of doing it in less than 100 hours of U/L experience to have a chance of doing it properly. Nev

 

 

[motzartmerv]

The RaAus instructor rating isn't recognised by CASA.. (they do allow a 10 hour reduction in the GA instructor rating, but that to me is just insulting).. So my advice would be to do the GA instructor rating, perhaps in an ultralight.. Jabiru, sportstar etc.. that way you will get 50 hours up in an ultralight type (albeit VH rego'd) and the RAA do recognise the GA instructor rating (with a minimum ultralight hours)..

 

If your around the sydney area, pm me, i can help you out with the perfect school for your needs.

 

cheers

 

 

[facthunter]

GA instructor rating.

 

Is on top of a Commercial licence. You should also cover the PMI aspect. .( Principles and Methods of instructing.) If you go this way, it is a fairly high cost, but would be a good base, and gives you flexibility. Progressive schools cover both GA and RAAus. Nev

 

 

[Mazda]

MikeHotel, I've sent you a PM!

 

 

[Simonflyer]

Hi MikeHotel and welcome..

 

I am in a very similar place, and im currently trying to decide which way to go about it..

 

As you know,doing the GA Instructor rating first means that you will have to knock your commercial stuff on the head(cost for you unknown to me??), and then get into your Ins/rating which could cost between 10 and 12 grand..It is relatively easy to transfer over to an RA rating from there(i think after a certain number of GA instructor hours-200 maybe-it may well just be the paperwork and your 25 hours in an ultralight,but my memory could be wrong on that), but as someone mentioned earlier , some GA pilots do take a little while to adjust to the stick and rudder sensitivity and reflexes required in planes that could well be less than half the weight of what they were flying before.The point is that it would be good for you to start getting a handle on tecnams,jabiru's gazzelles etc for your own experience if you want to go that way..

 

Doing it this way will take longer, and cost you a fair bit more money short term, but will give you much more flexibility moving forward with the different types of work available, and will make you ultimately more employable at the ever growing number of schools that teach in both RA and GA.

 

On the RA side of things...You can start to make a buck a bit earlier and with less initial outlay, but it wont be big bucks, and you will still have to keep going with your commercial subjects and do the GA rating later on.The RA rating will cost you about 6 grand..One of the upsides is that 750 hours of RA flying can count towards your GA hours, and it is a good way to buff up the logbook, but as you already have plenty, that may not be something you want or need.

 

I guess it comes down to what your ultimate goal is.If you want to go on to fly charter/airline/other commercial work, then i would probably suggest the GA route and get the crossover going, but if you want to instruct at your local airport and go home every night and arent in a hurry, then RA may be a go for a while anyway..

 

Long winded, but hopefully some use..

 

Cheers

 

Simon

 

 

[poteroo]

Matching your handling skills to the 'Patter'

 

Until you can handle the aircraft really well, ie, at least beyond the competency levels of PC, (and to CPL in GA), from the instructors seat - you'll be at a disadvantage in doing an instructor rating. Marrying the 'patter' to the action is essential for the students understanding. I'm skeptical that a 75 hr RAA pilot is able to do this - whereas a GA CPL will usually have 150/200 hrs TT - albiet not necessarily in the instructors seat.

 

My understanding of the rationale for CASA's creation of a GA specialist instructor training and review group is : low flying skill levels in junior instructors. Now, if this is so for GA, then it's probably true also for RAAus. I can't substantiate my comments, because I'm neither an ATO or a PE. Do I expect RAAus to follow CASA......yes, to an extent.

 

In summary, if you plan to instruct - become very competent in the 'other' seat before you start.

 

happy days,

 

 

[T500]

well I guess I can add my 2 cents worth here

 

{before I started i best state I flew Thruster/drifter/lightwing/more like 150 hrs in a thruster/}

 

for my RAA instructors I neaded to have 200hrs solo time in log first up//

 

then I payed a school $4500 to do my junior rating (not sure of the hrs here i had to do havent my log here, think was around 75hrs?) as a junior before getting my Instructors, but anyway all depends on the students that turn up, I was there 8hrs a day (weekends) and in that day, I might get one student for 1hr:sad: took me 12 mths to work up my 75hr

 

I also had to learn how to fly a gazelle took 3 hrs that was easy as from the right seat

 

however the jab was another story had to fly this cross over what a nightmare took me ten hrs before i was let up alone :thumb_up:

 

When I got that far I had to also do my PMIs and PPL theory and class 2 medical from instructor to senior instructor, I worked for a school 8hrs aday and just hope a few students turned up as the pay was only $20 per student another 12mths went by now i have had my senior for awhile now and, work weekends at a flying school with Jabs/gazelle/thruster

 

Ps If you dont want to take ages to get there{ Hint } find a school that has a good turn over of students

 

I could go on forever but I guess every little bit helps

 

cheers all